It’s been a while since I’ve done one of these posts, but I always have fun with them. This should (but won’t) also conclude the whole “who is a WoW tourist” thing. Once again this comes from WoW tourist representative Ixobelle (I elected you, congrats)
There’s a lot of people on the fence about Darkfall, and even more willing to play it just because it isn’t WoW. I think this is an unexplored genre in the MMO department that needs to be fully tapped. If you could make a game cheaply enough, with few enough people on the dev team to just implement a character creator and maybe one town and one dungeon, you could probably sell a few hundred thousand copies of the box alone to the ‘at least it’s not WoW demographic’. You wouldn’t even need to set up a billing department, since no one would actually SUBSCRIBE to your game, they’d just buy the box, spend a week with it, then move back to whatever they were playing before.
This is a different take on the WoW tourist population. It’s actually not a bad idea really, as I’m sure enough of the tourists WOULD drop $50 on something if you made it seem WoW-enough to get there attention (hell you get it from them even when you outright tell them to stay away). It’s amazing that no one has thought of this before, to make shovelware games and sell them cheaply at a store like Walmart. Man, I bet you could make a fortune on that, right THQ? In other news, the internet is coming, is your 14.4 ready?
Darkfall and Age of Conan fit that description perfectly, and Warhammer got maybe one month out of me.
Yes, all three of the games above are just shovelware, that brought nothing new to the genre, and their sole business plan was based around how many WoW tourists they could fool to sign up. They ‘failed’ because the silly devs could not figure out how to make their game WoW-enough to lure away all those true MMO gamers.
LotRO is probably the only other game I really respect out of the ‘non-WoW’ batch of MMOs I’ve played (but I never subscribed to LotRO, so there you go), and I have yet to actually even make it to the character creator in Coh/CoV. I signed up for a trial, and the downloader was so fucking slow that my free trial ran out before I ever actually got the game installed. Don’t even get me started on EVE. Hoo boy.
No please, do elaborate on EVE, it would be priceless. Warning though, the game does not contain NPCs with ! in bright yellow, so right off the bat it’s not as ‘polished’ as WoW. LoTRO thanks you for your respect, all 10 days or less of it. I am curious though what exactly you are looking for in an MMO if LoTRO was not WoW-enough for you?
Dear industry, please see exibit A above as to why WoW player != MMO player. Adjust budgets/expectations accordingly, or just wait for the current fad to pass.
People in Darkfall are doing the same thing I saw people doing in AoC, and it won’t be the last time I see people do this. They’re punishing themselves, and forcing themselves to play a sub par game, BUT AT LEAST THEY AREN’T PLAYING WOW. They repeat this mantra over and over on the game’s official forums, in the game’s public chat channels, and somehow decide this makes it all worth while.
I’m glad the WoW tourists have such a deep understanding of the MMO genre. Anyone not playing WoW is clearly just punishing themselves. Why in the world would I do anything described in the post below when I could be experiencing the utter joy of grinding dailies, afk-rep grinding a BG, or ‘raiding’ Nax while watching TV? BECAUSE I LOVE THE PAIN! I can’t think of anything better to do with my free time then log into a not-WoW MMO and just SUFFER through its content, because I’m gaining the all-important Interwebz rep! Look at me, I play DarkFall only because it’s not WoW, do you respect me yet?
Dear Industry, consider exhibit B above when designing future products, and just clone WoW so we don’t have to SUFFER through any form of innovation or change in the MMO genre. Clearly WoW is little baby Jesus for all mankind, lets not mess with perfection.
It won’t be a shocking revelation to anyone who reads this blog with any regularity, when I say I’m going back to WoW, because WoW doesn’t really bother me. :)
But it might come as a shocking revelation when I say please stay in WoW, and don’t venture back out. The genre thanks you for not flooding servers or posting “more like WoW” idiocy on forums. You do bother us :) (but the smiley makes it ok)
Insert rambling about how the Jews were so silly and could have avoided the Holocaust if they had just lied to the Nazi’s and said “nope, I’m not a Jew”.
ANYWAY, this all had a point, and here it is!
Oh but you have already made so many brilliant points already, solving the Holocaust and all, how could you possibly enlighten us any more?
Why suffer through BAD MMOs, for the sake of upholding your MMO MORALS?
Interwebz blogger street cred yo!
Every time I try a new MMO, I come into it with an open mind.
HAHAHAHAHA… oh wait you are serious about that? Please, continue.
There’s no magical force keeping me bound to WoW, and if I ever find a game that’s better, I’ll happily abandon WoW and move on. It’s just that, so far, there hasn’t been any game that’s horribly compelling. Darkfall (which is what this post started abaout, before it entered the Jesus Double Agent realm) is just not a good game. The combat is horrifically shallow, the supposed “freedom of being a PK” is flawed, and the game has very little going for it.
Allow me to translate this WoW tourist talk into something a MMO player understands. DarkFall was not WoW-enough for me. The mobs/players did not stand still and allow me to spam 2-3-4-2-3-4 until they burst with epix, and hence I find the combat ‘shallow’. Please add depth by removing the skill factor, and re-introduce item/level dependency. Being a PK was also too hard, yet at the same time only played by stupid 13yr olds. Somehow my personal vision of being a badass did not work out, and players held me accountable for my actions, therefore ruining my fun. Just because this is an MMO does not mean I want to interact with others!
I can’t really comment on “the game has very little going for it”, as I’ve only played for a few weeks now, which is nothing compared to the depth Ixobelle dove into. I’m assuming everything I wrote in the post below though is still before I get to that ‘very little going for it’ part. Maybe I’m not at that level or zone yet?
By removing classes, they just lump EVERYONE into the same mold. Everyone uses polearms and trains earth magic. Every single person shoots arrows at you from a distance, and wears plate.
Where to start… Dear Ixobelle, how many sets of plate did you acquire in DF? It should have been easy, what with EVERYONE running around in plate at all times. I’m also confused why my guild mates trained in non-earth magic, I’ll inform them of the mistake and have them respec to fit the current FOTM build. While I’m at it, I’ll also ask them to only shoot arrows at people point blank, rather than from a distance. I’ll also delete my own character now, as clearly my sword/board built is ‘wrong’. I’ll be sure to pass this along to the DF community, as I’ve noticed a large amount of players who missed the FOTM memo you got. Or I guess we will just continue as is, it means we are suffering more, so we get more interwebz cred, right?
The ‘big dangerous world’ mechanic is totally ruined when they have mining and timber resources located inside city walls. People aren’t dicouraged from macroing to upgrade certain skills, as long as they’re physically present at the keyboard while they do so. So people watch reruns of Frasier in a window while they pew pew pew their wand straight into the sky, thereby ‘leveling their magic’.
Because you know, they need to reach max level so they can start playing the awesome end-game in DarkFall. Odd that the ‘big dangerous world’ mechanic is TOTALLY ruined and yet you had so much trouble with it. Again, which one is it, too hard or too easy? (The skill system has issues, as I’ve written about, but connecting that with the world not being big or dangerous is dumbfounding, not to mention town resources have already been fixed, much to the dismay of the remaining tourists)
Darkfall, from what I saw, had exactly three things going for it:
Fear of death. The ability to wear armor you find (no “I’m only able to wear cloth”). One character per server.
Two of those even have downsides: Everyone wears plate
Yes, because plate rains from the sky and as soon as you lose a set, you just magically shit out another one. Even if you just outright suck at the game and get yourself killed to no end, you still just squat and shit out some plate. Exactly, and this goes RIGHT along with the fear of death. Everyone fears death so much, because the endless rain of plate, arrows, and polearms only comes around once a day…
and you can’t enagage in different playstyles to match your mood. Sometimes I want to DPS, sometimes I want to heal.
Sometimes I want to play a druid, sometimes I want to play a rogue. WoW -> that way.
I guess you *could* do that in Darkfall, but it’d be like having a druid specced 24-23-24. Sometimes I want to go 51+ points deep into a tree, and to do that (and subsequently undo that) takes way too much time. Some people love locking themselves into that one distinct playstyle, but I play these games to HAVE FUN. Darkfall isn’t very fun.
No no no, we play DarkFall to SUFFER, remember? I love being locked into only being able to wear all armor, use all weapons, and the ability to pick which magic schools to skill up regardless of any other choices. If only I had the freedom to play something as unique as a healbot Pali, loved by my guild for my leet spamming of a single ability in all raids. Sure I lost my raid spot when I said I wanted to DPS, but man, I love being able to do subpar (or is it OP this month?) DPS against afk players in a battleground, or Wintergrasp when they reenable it!
That’s what it always comes back to for me, and I feel like enough people are familiar enough with my stance on it. The more I spout it, the more I just feel like I’m just typing the same post over and over again.
Yes, next time an MMO is released, all you need to write is “I tried X, it was not WoW, everyone playing it are a bunch of suffering idiots, and I’m back to happily farming gear/rep/tokens/rainbows.”
I won’t suffer through a game that isn’t fun, and at this point WoW is still much more fun than Darkfall. This doesn’t make me a WoW fanfoi, it makes me a FuN fanboi. I just don’t care to punish myself in my liesure time, so sue me.
Not only are you not a WoW fanfoi, or even a FuN fanboi, you’re just a WoW tourist. So again, please don’t flood the servers the first month of launch and the forums the week after you ragequit. Just stay in candyland, enjoy the rides, and move on to the next fad when it hits. The MMO genre thanks you.
Now the bonus section, comments from the WoW tourist peanut gallery!
I’m always going to be playing WoW if any MMO just because I’ve always figured I shouldn’t mess with what I’m good at.
Of course, it’s not that hard to be good at WoW, but whatever,
Thank you Kyir, if only more WoW players followed your example. Be like Kyir people!
People hate WoW for one of three reasons: They’re bad at it, or they hate what it has become, or they’ve lost a friend and/or family member and/or all of their friends and family as a result of it. Then they go all emo rage and play terrible games because of it. I don’t bash WoW and play other games to spite it. I actually see my nephews playing and am happy they enjoy it. I just don’t find that same sense of satisfaction anymore.
@HP – If you’re a girl, good for you that you’re actually spending time with your b/f by doing something he enjoys. There aren’t enough female gamers because most women take everything for granted and expect shit to be handed to them. If you’re a guy and you have a b/f…um…hrm. Awkward.
The gays, so awkward…
Also, if you’re bad at WoW, I would suggest putting the padded helmet back on, clearly you can’t afford any more damage. Stick to tic-tac-toe. This is news to me that WoW actually kills your family/friends. It must be a really awesome game to still have 11 million subs if it can replace all the deceased players. But at least I got out in time, had my emo rage quit moment (I took my guild with me too!), and now I get to play terrible games all day!
Random Poster said…
@the WoW hate specifically
I think a lot of the “blogosphere” thinks it somehow builds their credibility if they start screaming “WoW sucks I hate it now…even though I played it for 4 years” because it makes them “cool” because they aren’t following the crowd. It’s the same thing you see with teenagers and the various cliques that form in school. “Yeah man I am so anti establishment look at me look at me look at me”.
Yes, I blog to be considered ‘cool’ amount people who read blogs. Please accept me into your secret society!
Syncaine is a good example of this to me. I used to enjoy the blog he writes but lately he has gone beyond disagreeing voiceferously with people over how much WoW sucks to immediately going into “OMG you don’t like Darkfall you fucking Newb die iun a fucking fire with your whole family while I piss on your corpse” and throwing out insults. It IMO undermines any point he is trying to get across as it makes him appear juvenille. His choice obviously.
I’m guessing this post won’t convince you to come back then huh? Now who will fill the void left behind by Random Poster? At least in his/her place, I can put all the street cred this post will earn me!
Something beyond a one liner…
Clearly someone hacked into Bonedead’s account. We here are not fooled however, as we know all about the man with the one-line comments!
You’ll see this a lot in those who trash WoW after “falling out of love” with it. Instead of just realizing that they themselves have changed and moving on, they try to demonize their spurned love. That way, it’s not their fault, it’s someone else’s. (And it’s funny to assume there’s any fault at all, come to think of it. Sometimes it’s OK to have different preferences from someone else.)
There’s also the “street cred” psychology. Someone who wants to build their reputation might do so by taking a stance “against” rather than “for”. It’s easy; just look at political grandstanding. Standing for something is much more difficult, you have to intelligently articulate a position and defend it well. (It’s easier to be a Player Killer than a Pacifist?)
Running a slight tangent, that sort of street cred thing extends to those who see being at the level cap in Tier 8 armor as a badge of personal worth. Who cares? It’s a game, either you’re having fun or you’re not. (This also extends to any time that people complain about how *other* people play. This is seen in anything from the “you’re not specced properly” to “RMT is devil spawn”.)
Of course, for some people, life isn’t fun unless they are trying to make someone else miserable. For those people, they have Darkfall.
Dear lost love WoW, please take me back into your rep-grinding arms, and allow me to lay in your daily-grind bosom. I’m so tired of suffering while playing DarkFall, and long for your recycled ezmod Nax content. I also miss your bastardized lore, your failure to balance classes after all these years, and lastly, your amazing use of neon colors. Take me back, please? Oh, and I want my ‘street cred’ too, yo!
More hacked account Bonedead posting…
And now he is making sense and bringing up good points. Come on buddy, if you are going to try and be an imposter, do your homework!
Spot on about the whole “omg dis is so much better dan wow guysh” spam every new wannabe mmo is spammed with.
Its funny how one sided the mmo market truly is at the moment, are blizzard really the only ones who can make a decent mmo, or is nobody really trying ?
So WoW is the true MMO, and the rest are wannabes? And yes, the ‘MMO’ market is truly one sided, with 11 million people playing for fun, and the rest of us idiots suffering to prove a point. But damnit, eventually our suffering will bear fruit, and we will get WoW 2 from the only company still trying!
Random poster said…
“What would happen if I went onto a WoW server and started saying this game needs player cities and full loot and close down the BGs because Darkfall does it? The same thing that syncaine is saying except probably at least 5 times more juvenile because we all know regional chat in WoW is pretty friggin stupid”
I think you would get a fair amount of agreement actually at least on the Player Housing. But yeah you’d get a lot of the same asshattedness Syn is spouting..it doesn’t make it any better that he is doing it. The people who resort to that in WoW tend ot be ignored. When you are trying to make a point or have a discussion actually stating those points without devolving in to personal insults is much more effective.
It is his blog and he can post whatever he wants but as I said it’s made me not like it all that much anymore. Does me not liking the style in anyway effect him, no but hey I can have my opinion to :P
It makes my ‘asshattedness’ better because I’m suffering while MMO gaming, and you are just having fun carebear. Not to mention my niche voice easily overpowers the voice of those 11 million players, so it’s really a non-issue. It’s not like if 1% of WoW players try something and then spam a forum that it’s not WoW is noticeable, while when 1% of all other MMO players bitch about WoW they are drastically changing WoW with their overwhelming spam on the WoW forums. Glad we cleared that up!
Examples of things that are “toil” rather than “challenging”:
1) Having to walk everywhere (no hearthstone or mount)
2) No mail system
3) Having to use chat to do trading that could be done more conveniently on an AH
4) A shitty interface that gives no information and little flexibility
5) Overly harsh death penalties
Stay in WoW and never leave, PLEASE! The above is enough content to fill an entire blog for months.
“If you want people to be more afraid of death and make it mean something, why not implement it in such a way that you gain renown when you win fights and lose it when you die, or by some other risk/reward mechanic. Being completely disabled every time you rez means that players can no longer have meaningful, interesting challenge (they can’t participate in any actual battles), and instead are dropped into a toiling mini-game of getting back to their corpse. Punish them for losses another way, while still letting them participate in the real game.”
agh, hatch! nail. head. hit. pow.
THIS sums up why I prefer WoW, I think, more elegantly than my ramblings could have. The INSTANT you die in Darkfall you become worhtless. Imagine a city siege with 40 on 40.
5 minutes into the siege, half the people are going to be running around naked. They won’t ‘go home’, they’ll just continue to throw themselves on your sword over and over wearing underwear and weilding a level 1 grey sword.
how is that fun for ANYONE but the person that still has their armor on? and how does that persom still have their armor on, except by sheer luck that they weren’t chosen by the zerg?
In the above example, you could argue ‘well, I took up a defensive position on the ramparts, and blah blah blah’, but nobody PLAYS these games like that. It’s a zerg. period. If 20 naked people jump on you with underwear and level 1 swords, you will eventually die.
Or instead of playing in the land of make believe, you could actually come to a city siege (you don’t even have to hit max level and gear up before you can come!) and see what it’s like. Players surviving a siege are just as lucky as poker pros who somehow manage to finish higher on average than regular players. It’s not skill, they just get lucky more often, right? Plus plate armor rains from the sky, so why worry? Oh, and can you please tell the defending guild in the last city siege that no one plays by taking up a defensive position, and to just come out and die randomly? It would have made our job as a zerg so much easier…
Also, the first part is another awesome example of “this does not work, and I don’t know a solution, but clearly ANYTHING would be better than this”. That’s grade A game design buddy.
bringing it back to darkfall (which was what this post began as), I guess they play gritty ghetto ball. an elbow in the face is just part of the game, and nobody at Rucker Park in Manhattan is going to call a timeout for a foul, they just play differently.
I guess I’m a bitch, because I prefer the WoW ruleset. it’s not *better*, just different… and the one I prefer. : /
How does the above line up with the whole “if you don’t play WoW you are just playing MMOs to suffer” reasoning? And because a league decides to move beyond “we don’t keep score, everyone is a winner in our mind”, that somehow makes it ghetto gritty? I hate to tell you, some people do things in life because they enjoy a challenge, whether at work or on their off time. Those same people might not like 11 million tourists yelling at the league to stop keeping score and start handing out neon ribbons, even though they know they won’t sign up for the league anyway.
(The above is intended to be over the top. I don’t have anything personal against Ixobelle, your writting just sums up the general feelings of most WoW tourists and makes a good example. Plus this is what happens when you find an increased amount of time at work to blog (new job in two weeks))