Shocking! Asian grind game is grindy

This is rather amussing.

Damn NCSoft for tricking everyone into believe this Asian import with a year+ record of well documented grinding would be a grind. Those bastards.

(Bonus points for kicking those with high-end rigs in the nuts once they reach end-game. Why would the end-game need to work for everyone just a year after release?)

15 Responses to Shocking! Asian grind game is grindy

  1. Riknas says:

    From what I can tell, humor aside, this isn’t so much a disbelief of the grind existing, but rather stressing the importance that people who -aren’t- up to date like the blogging and podcasting community, will be horribly distressed by this.

    Although not quite a surprise to most of the bloggers, can we blame some of the less obsessive MMO players to expect things that are not grind-esque? To most of us, it’s a knee jerk reaction, you can hear grind, but we have a degree of expectation built into us. “Quests labeled level ___ are for me. When I finish all of ___ level quests, I should be level _+1 and be able to do level _+1 quests.

    When all of a sudden the quests start appearing, people are thrown off, and all of the information in our head goes out the window.

  2. coppertopper says:

    I guess if you’re used to be rushed thru level 1-80 before you begin the real grind (or 1-20 in GW), getting to max level being a matter of weeks instead of days would be considered a grind. Between rifting, Abyss PvP, crafting, gathering, questing, and running dungeons via PuG and guild groups (all of those gain you exp), I just don’t feel the pressure to hit 50,and yet I keep leveling. Weird.

  3. Adam says:

    So awesome from one of the posters –

    “The xp curve is fine, especially for a new game, but does every game that has come out now have to be WoW ified?”

    This guy is playing Aion and is concerned about it getting WoWified?

    Seriously.

  4. Jeff says:

    I give up… if nobody likes the levelling game then why do developers insist on including levels in new MMOs? Why not just start every new RPG player at endgame, like any online shooter does, if that’s what all customers want?

    • Adam says:

      I think a legitimate complaint people could have about leveling is not that its “too hard” but that it has so little to do with what you end up doing in the endgame.

      WoW has 80 levels of solo questing with no pvp or raiding and little chance of 5 manning etc. whats the point?

      Aion pvp doesn’t even start until 25(?) and once again what does solo questing have to do with the game you’ll actually play when you get to the endgame?

      Warhammer for all its warts actually did a good job of fixing this problem. Pvp scenarios were available from level 1… great xp and reknown as well as learning to play in a real way. Outdoor “RVR” was also available right away and was simple but at least relevant to what you would be doing at max level.

    • sid67 says:

      I think there is something to be said about slowly introducing additional abilities and so forth that adds something to the pacing of a game.

      But you are right — grinding out that last 10 or so levels to reach the “end-game” always feels like a grind.

      IMO, it would be better to keep the leveling pace the same as it is when you first begin a game and let it end relatively quickly. THEN allow your players to enter the end-game and experience the lionshare of your content.

      This makes sense from a development standpoint as well because you can focus 70% of your content on the “end-game” and only a very small portion in the so-called “leveling” game.

      Even if you take a game like WAR which did a good job with the first 30 levels — it really really stalled for the last 10 before reaching level 40. Why games persist in making those last few levels before reaching the cap such a boring grind is absolutely beyond me.

      And like I pointed out above, it also seems like such a waste of development resources.

    • Derrick says:

      The biggest problem most MMO’s have, particularly themeparks, in my opinion (and this is from a unbiased position as to play type preference) is that they are two totally unrelated games mashed together.

      There’s the levelling game, and then there’s the endgame. These two games look the same, have the same underlying ruleset… but are utterly different games.

      The biggest argument I see is “Players need time to learn their class”. No.

      Good players will learn their class functionally well in just a couple hours. Poor players won’t regardless. Either way, the experience you gain levelling typically has little to do with what you need to know at level cap for end-game; it’s only basic use of your toons abilities that’s actually useful information because more advanced play typically involves abilities you don’t get till near level cap anyways.

      I manage, in single player games, to learn how to use new units/abilities/whatever inside of a few minutes playing with them. Experience improves that, but that’s always true regardless.

      It just doesn’t work. You’re a dedicated raider/PvPer sort? Gotta spend weeks playing a game you don’t want to play in order to be able to play the game you WANT to play. Likewise, if you’re into the levelling game… as that side of the game is sped up to support those trying to get alts to endgame, the game that you want to play is hollowed out. Players on either side of the divide are subsidising a whole game they’re utterly uninterested in just to play the game they want to play.

      Eve, IMHO, has it right: Endless progression, there is no endgame. The game is the game, period. Obviously, this means the power gap over progression has to be narrower and more gradual, and combat mechanics have to be designed such that less progressed characters can still meaningfully contribute.

      • Damage Inc says:

        I would say the initial three MMORPG’s had it right. UO, AC and EQ all were about more than just the leveling and the endgame. Of those three, EQ was probably the most endgame dedicated but there was so much to do before that for the most part it wasn’t about just getting to the end game.

        UO was all about doing different things in game, even if you reached being a 7xGM. There was just so much variety and freedom in that game that there was always some thing for people to do.

        Finally AC was all about the journey as their initial level limit was 126. I played AC for a year and a half and only reached level 78. (I didn’t participate in macroing or vassal chains.) The monthly content updates were wonderful and each month we had something special to usually look forward too.

      • sid67 says:

        I think WAR did a good job with introducing players to both the class, the world, and what they should expect at the end-game.

        All this was included in Tier 1 and by level 12, you had an pretty good idea what the game would be in Tier 4.

        One of the issues (as I see it) is that level 33-39 is just downright boring to level and very time consuming. So by the time you finally reach 40, you WANT something different. Only it’s not. It’s still the same.

        So in that respect, having two games to learn isn’t necessarily that bad an idea. It can work to transition the player from something they were starting to tire of, to something new and exciting.

        BUT — I would argue that it would be better to never make the player tire of the original thing in the first place. What exactly is the point of that? If you are worried about players burning through content, then work on developing most of the content for AFTER the level cap.

        The ‘leveling game’ should be treated as an introductory phase, not as a grindfest to earn your MMO stripes before playing with the big kids.

        That said, I think you NEED that introductory phase to get acclimated to the game, your character, the world setting and so forth — you just don’t need 80 levels of it.

  5. Ponder says:

    All this grind talk is crap.

    The real problem with Aion is huge lack of multplayer content. This forces people to solo faster and longer just in the hope of seeing some fun…

    • Damage Inc says:

      which is odd because before release, in the CB and OB, they had a good bit of group content in their elite areas but they nerfed them so nobody does them anymore.

  6. kaozz says:

    I think the thing that had everyone was NCSoft said the game would be second only to WoW. If that was the case it should be more Westernized. I don’t think being grindy is the biggest problem in Aion though.

  7. Malakili says:

    I was waiting for this shoe to drop. People have been up talking Aion for a while, and I just don’t think people really knew what it was. To be fair NCSoft did a good job marketing for the western market, basically selling “Look, you play WoW, this is like that, but way prettier, and with Wings, and stuff” Thats enough to get a lot of WoW players interested.

    People didn’t know what they were signing up for you.

    • Derrick says:

      It may be enough to get a lot of WoW players interested – or former WoW players, but it won’t be enough to keep them.

      This is the problem with WoW clones. People who still play WoW will typically stay (or go back) because of the comfort of familiarity and established social networks; people who quit WoW will find the same fundamental reasons they quit exist in Aion too.

  8. pitrelli says:

    Having played both, I wouldnt say Aion is a WoW clone, its weird one but I’d say its a cross of both WoW and WAR.

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