Stay in school kids

A few of us have been laughing ourselves to tears over the latest ForumFall post-of-the-year entry, and someone insisted I share with the rest of the class. Fair warning, the rage is very strong here.

“You have no clue what I like because you’re simple minded, clearly. Stop saying I have no idea, when I have more of an idea than you can imagine.

My brains huge btw.

I came to this game because it was ADVERTISED as a 3d version of UO. They never attained anything CLOSE to the sandbox of UO that I fell in love with, but they eventually got the combat to the same level of fun I had in UO, so I stuck with it because of that.

Does that mean I’m narrow minded enough to say all a game needs is good combat? Not at all. That’s you being daft and trying to think you have me pegged as an elitist. Do I enjoy playing with good players more than bad ones? Of course, it’s less stressful as a leader when I can count on those under me. It’s also different mindsets.

If you’ll notice, mountains of people agree with me, people from guilds I’ve dominated, people I’ve made my enemies through trolling and forcing them to, and people that can just tell I know what I am talking about. From the combat, to the economy, to sandbox ideas, I have it all covered. Does it bug you that I know what I am talking about from every single aspect of an MMO? I wish I was a lead developer for a gaming company, because I would make the single best sandbox game on the market, alas, I don’t believe in the current schooling system in this country, and I have other ways I make money nowadays. Luckily a couple of friends of mine are making a good sandbox game, and I hope down the road I can learn enough code to actually help them carry the weight.

Maybe you just don’t like me, but you can go read my suggestion thread on how much Sand I wish was in this game, much more than you think.

This will be the last response I’ll garner to you btw, because you just started off insulting me for no fucking reason, other than your bad reading comprehension.

Darkfall COMBAT lovers, do not love Eve’s combat, at all.

That is a simple fact, and no amount of douchebaggery you spout, will change that.”

 

(Side notes: a minute later he would go on and post another reply to what originally sent him off the rails. Sadly I can’t claim credit for the original effort that got him going. The above treasure has me reblocked. Yes, reblocked, as he ‘blocked’ me, but then would continue to reply to my posts quoting me, and I think someone tipped him off to it. So he now claims to have ‘reblock’ me, and tries to keep the illusion up by simply direct-replying to posts without quoting them. Kid’s really smart.)

So on the plus side, Darkfall has the greatest dev-that-never-was sharing his brilliance, and believe me, it really is next-level design wisdom. Crafting unicorn hunts like you read about.

One question that we kept going back and forth on though; when someone says they are uneducated… err sorry, um… “doesn’t believe in the current schooling system”, they mean they never went to college right? And they are using that excuse as to why their genius hasn’t been recognized by the gaming industry. (Spoiler alert; college degrees don’t do much for you in the gaming industry)

No chance someone would admit to being a high school dropout on a public forum in a post about how smart they are, right? The mysteries of ForumFall.

35 Responses to Stay in school kids

  1. Whats is truly sad is you posting it to laugh of him. You´re a just a bully fuelled by your peers stupidity.

    • sid6.7 says:

      So much irony. Two posts above the one that Syncaine reposted, Jonah (the author of the above) wrote:

      “My name is Syncaine and I have a tiny, tiny, tiny brain.

      I’m a hardcore casual.

      Which is a nice way of saying, giant pussy.”

      Syncaine gets a lot of that from Forumfall where he’s not well liked by a large part of the community because he’s seen as someone who wants to create EvE w/ Swords and has too much influence (through the MVP forums) with the developers.

      In any event, Jonah, while extremely inflammatory, is usually on target with the “issues” that need to be addressed. A very large portion of the active community, including myself, happen to agree with his POV as well.

      It’s an interesting conundrum, do you fix what’s wrong with the game that players who still play (like Jonah) say is wrong with it? Or do you fix what others who have left or never played the game think is wrong with it in the hopes they come to play again?

      Sadly, I don’t think it matters as the DFUW ship has sailed and I don’t think they’ll ever get more than a trickle of people coming back to try it at a time — and they’ll leave once they find an empty world.

      • SynCaine says:

        One group numbers in the hundreds, the other numbers in the tens of thousands, so while I believe staying true to your core is an important aspect of an MMO, at some point you have to take into consideration who your current core is and ask if that pool is significant enough. The “PvP for the sake of PvP” crowd that is left in DF:UW isn’t, just like it wasn’t in DF1.

        I had thought that, with the transition to DF:UW, AV had recognized that fault with DF1, and they had a good start with classes and prowess and all that. Even the early stuff in the MVP forum (before they invited everyone in) was leaning towards that direction.

        Now I’m not that convinced, which is why my confidence in the whole thing is pretty low. When they recently brought up bringing back bunnyhopping as something the players want, that was a pretty clear sign they still don’t really get it, and instead are being mislead yet again by Forumfall.

        • sid6.7 says:

          AV’s problem is that they throw the baby out with the bath water. Rather than iterative changes to fix solid ideas suffering from bad implementation, they come up with new ideas and repeat the bad implementation.

          No offense, but the presence of an MVP forum with people who have an agenda for radical change doesn’t really help the cause. If anything, all it does is reaffirm to AV that they need to keep throwing out babies.

          At this point, I just think they are flailing around and can’t figure out what the fuck to do. And the sad truth is — they can’t do anything. Because the people who left aren’t going to come back in numbers no matter what they do…

        • SynCaine says:

          Sure they would. People have slowly gone over to Mortal Online as that game has matured and gotten itself into a position to cater to the empire-building crowd (among others), and at its core that game isn’t even close to what DF:UW is in terms of feel, graphics, combat, etc.

          Whether players correctly identify it or not as they leave, the biggest problem for DF:UW, like most of today’s MMOs, isn’t a specific system or flaw, but simply that you can reach a point where you are ‘done’. You run out of things you need or want to do, and so you stop logging in.

        • Daniel Díaz says:

          I’m going to leave my opinion here. I played WoW from vanilla up tot he start of Cataclysm, when I got bored for the last time. I have never tried a them park again as I consider I had more than enough of them.

          I tried Eve, but I kind of didn’t like the space setting too much. Still, I love Eve, we can say I’m one of those dudes that wait and wait for a medieval Eve. Then, having tried different games like Mount & Blade, Crusader Kings II, or browser games like The West. I started to develop a great interest in playing a sandbox mmo.

          The only one I gave a serious try was Age of Wushu, which I liked a lot, but left because they were rushing content in the Eu version of the game to catch up with the US one. This made it too much a power grind for my taste, so I quit.

          From then, I’ve been searching and trying to get into such a game. I thought about Vanguard, it’s closing. Salem, didn’t like what I read. Wurm, too few people playing. I tried the original Darkfall for a couple of days back then but I was too busy with WoW. Now, when I read about DF:UW, I find the lack of a strong economy a killer. The homogeneization of characters is also something that holds me back. Now the low population. Also the lack of housing or changing the world in any way.

          If Darkfall fixed those things, I would be playing it without question. As it stands, I don’t have any interest in playing a strange looking and functioning M&B lobby with few and overpowered people to play.

          I guess that leaves me as one supporting Syncaine’s view on this. If Aventurine spends development effort to plea to their current players, that would be a huge mistake. Because some of them will eventually leave anyway because of low population or just plain bore.

          As it stands, my only hope lies in Pathfinder Online right now. It looks like it can have everything I would like. Go figure!

      • Rynnik says:

        “So much irony. Two posts above the one that Syncaine reposted, Jonah (the author of the above) wrote:

        “My name is Syncaine and I have a tiny, tiny, tiny brain.

        I’m a hardcore casual.

        Which is a nice way of saying, giant pussy.”

        Syncaine gets a lot of that from Forumfall where he’s not well liked by a large part of the community because he’s seen as someone who wants to create EvE w/ Swords and has too much influence (through the MVP forums) with the developers.

        In any event, Jonah, while extremely inflammatory, is usually on target with the “issues” that need to be addressed. A very large portion of the active community, including myself, happen to agree with his POV as well.

        It’s an interesting conundrum, do you fix what’s wrong with the game that players who still play (like Jonah) say is wrong with it? Or do you fix what others who have left or never played the game think is wrong with it in the hopes they come to play again?”

        Sid, nice white knight attempt (much like the ‘save Jonah brigade’ that arrived in the subject thread after he rage embarrassed himself like that, or whatever the hell you call that post he made). Why the fuck would you bother though? And the ‘Syncaine attack’ approach to it? Here on his blog? Are you fucking retarded?

        Seriously though at 11k post count I am sure not everything Jonah has said on forumfail can be 100% wrong but outside of parroting some decent stuff second hand, I challenge you to find one original thought that guy has added to the ‘way ahead’ discussion that isn’t pants-on-head retarded. So in the topic of the thread where the negative influence of the community was being discussed as relating to AVs inability to really deliver to date, Jonah stands out as a perfect example in a sea of complete fucking retards who could write the book on, “I have no idea what I want and I will ask for exactly all the wrong things and then be completely clueless why developing exactly what I asked for broke the game.”

        Jonah, doesn’t represent a ‘majority’ of forumfallers any more than you or I represent a majority. And Syncaine certainly isn’t ostracized in that cesspit of an official game forum more or less than a whole ton of other folks. Do you actually buy into the shit people talk on there?

        EVE w/ swords is actually a whole lot better than ANY OTHER MMORPG EXAMPLE ON THE MARKET that AV could copy to gain a hope of success – especially in the aspects of sinks/faucets and developing an effective sandbox economy which is the single biggest issue in the game right now. And I am starting think copying another dev studio may be the best hope of getting things sorted that AV has. Maybe not, but you would have to be a complete idiot to discount CCP from being the closest thing in the world to ‘having got it right’ and at least considering from there what may or may not be a good idea to port over.

        Also, please look up ‘irony’. You don’t know what it means. Paging ASL to this comment section – he would seriously make this day complete for me in a way I can’t even describe.

        • SynCaine says:

          Someone else parroted that “Jonah actually has good ideas” thing Sid repeated, and I asked them the same thing; what ideas? Never heard back.

          Because as far as I can recall, they are either laughably terrible or not his. Now, he will lie like he normally does that he was the first to suggest X or Y, and of course he did it on mumble or in-game rather than the forums so there is no proof, but really, please provide me a link to an idea you believe is honestly his and that you would honestly stand behind. I’m genuinely curious now, because while we don’t agree on things, I know and respect you enough to not automatically discount it like some others.

        • sid6.7 says:

          The irony is that someone is calling Syncaine a bully for poking fun at perhaps the biggest bully in DF.

          On the topic of whether Jonah is right — he is 100% spot-on in his ability to pinpoint the real issues. That said, I never said his ‘solutions’ to said issues were the best. In fact, they usually suck.

          Reading a Jonah post for me usually starts with … yeah, fuck yeah, right fucking on, you nailed it, umm no, no again, well that’s retarded, and no they shouldn’t do that…

          That’s because Jonah “gets it” but he doesn’t always have good ideas. Even so, I find that POV a lot more refreshing than someone who doesn’t get it at all.

        • SynCaine says:

          That’s a pretty major backtrack Sid. So you agree with me that Jonah is an idiot when it comes to solutions, but yay he can parrot “fix combat” and “we need more content”, plus the always helpful “Make the game fun AV”. That’s mighty impressive for the worlds greatest MMO developer. What next, Jonah shares with us that Sunday is the most popular day in MMOs? Someone call up EA!

          Because otherwise, no, Jonah is dead wrong on the issues. He thinks fixing (bringing back DF1) combat will save DF:UW. Are you telling me you agree with that? That not only should the priory be combat, but that ‘features’ such as bunnyhopping and a ‘higher skill ceiling’ would increase the games population?

          Much like Jonah and the other members of the idiot club, I need something solid to work with here, and so far you haven’t provided anything of substance. What actual points do you agree with Jonah on? What do you think should be the priority for AV right now?

        • Rynnik says:

          Apologies Sid. I totally miss-read the ‘irony’ part of your post and totally struck out on how you approached responding to our (hopefully) new friend Mr Fakington.

          You do in fact seem to understand what irony is and I am extremely discomfited that I briefly categorized you with Alanis Morissette in my mind.

          I am sorry.

          The issues with DF aren’t exactly tough to categorize, so fair enough, Jonah may have an accurate depiction of what they are, along with AV, you, me, Syncaine, Xipher, and that other guy three streets down with the brown paper bag bottle. Jonah’s well spammed approach to attempting to solve any of them deserves to be laughed at when possible though.

          That said, I do feel bad for Jonah on a personal level.

        • sid6.7 says:

          When I say Jonah ‘gets it’ — I mean, he understands the game so thoroughly at the very highest level that he can internalize a proposed change and see the actual impact this will have on the game.

          And when I say highest level, I mean the very highest level. You would be very challenged to find anyone in DF who is more accomplished than Jonah in anything (politically, PVP-wise, PVE-wise, crafting/gathering, whatever).

          Not to be controversial here, but you and some others in the MVP forums don’t ‘get it’ in the same way. That’s not to say that you don’t get other problems with the game or always have bad ideas — but the POV that Jonah has is ultimately one that’s consistent with the direction that I believe AV needs to strive towards.

          That said, I’m not saying that Jonah is the “idea man” that’s going to get you to that place. In fact, I’ll emphatically say that he’s NOT that guy.

          But what he does well and why I believe it’s important for him to be an MVP is as a vocal opponent against the bad ideas. Of which, there are lots of bad ideas.

          While it’s easy to say these bad ideas are obvious — clearly that’s not the case because we see a lot of bad ideas get a lot of traction.

          Also, as I understand how the MVP forums work from those I know in the MVP forums, it’s less about players proposing ideas and more about players providing feedback on ideas presented by AV.

          So in that respect, I think Jonah may be the most qualified person in Forumfall to represent the POV of players like myself.

        • Rynnik says:

          Sid said:

          “You would be very challenged to find anyone in DF who is more accomplished than Jonah in anything (politically, PVP-wise, PVE-wise, crafting/gathering, whatever).”

          Until last night and quoted post you would have had to add forumfalling to that list. lmao

        • SynCaine says:

          Zealots wrote the book on PvE in beta. Jonah was always a nobody politically when the major players still played, and ‘for some reason’ has never collected a group larger than a dozen or so players. He was utterly confused about crafting/gathering when that topic was brought up by AV on the MVP board, to the point that multiple people had to write multiple posts to clarify it for him.

          He has above average twitch skills amongst the two dozen or so players that still take DF PvP seriously, that’s it, and even then he is most famous from running away from tournaments rather than winning them.

          Sorry, being a somewhat larger fish in a tiny pond isn’t impressive to me. Not sure why it is to you.

          And not to harp on it, but I asked for specifics, and you still didn’t provide any, just somewhat inaccurate background about someone I’m already familiar-enough with.

          Also mostly incorrect about the MVP board, but that doesn’t really matter here.

        • sid6.7 says:

          I really don’t want to keep going to bat for a guy who I don’t even really like in-game. I will say that I don’t think you’ve ever spoken with the guy in comms (which I have) because I think you’d have your answer on why ‘for some reason’ he has a small group.

          That said, you asked for specifics, so I’ll provide some. His observations about how PVP is imbalanced are always spot-on and detailed. He had a post up about how ridiculously overpowered Duelists were before it was cool or even obvious how overpowered Duelists were to the vast majority.

          His observations about why people engage and are motivated to PvP are also spot-on. As an example, he was one of the very first to call the whole RNG ‘gear-break’ concept retarded when that idea was introduced. That’s not a point he scores credit from you (obviously) but you wanted specifics. :)

          In beta, he was also one of the most vocal about not having essences in safe zones. The ramifications of which are still felt in the economy even though they eventually changed it.

          And most importantly, he embodies what I believe is the POV that the most important thing in Darkfall is PVP. Everything that detracts from the quality of PVP is bad.

          I imagine if I searched all things Jonah in forumfall that I could find others, but you get the idea.

        • Rammstein says:

          If calling something retarded qualifies as a great new idea now, then apparently these well-known forum cesspits are actually staggering loci of unimaginable intellects, hard at work and play.

        • SynCaine says:

          The ‘for some reason’ was a joke, I understand exactly why his clans change names often and they are always small. His appeal is very limited, despite his obsession with the game and above-average ability.

          On duelist; I’m sure you remember Jonah was among the ‘elite’ that predicted the duelist will be very underpowered when AV announced the role and the skills, because after all, Jonah understands DF combat on such a very high level. I don’t need to dig up the post were I stated the opposite, do I?

          The gear break is an economic item, and economics is something Jonah has a long-established track record of being very clueless about. He is, after all, the bluff box champion, an idea even AV dismissed in short order for being the garbage that it was, right alongside bank decay.

          Essences: Jonah, Xphier, and just about anyone else who posted on the forums in beta knew that was a mistake. Sorry, very weak example, and again an economic one.

          That he embodies the POV of “PvP for the sake of PvP” is very true, and is very much a large part of the problem. Look around at similar games, or just ask your former clan mates playing MO, and ask them what keeps them going. Certainly isn’t the combat in MO, now is it?

          Pick a better champion to get behind man, you don’t want to go down with this ship.

        • sid6.7 says:

          Also devil’s advocate here, but what are your credentials? You discounted Jonah’s accomplishments but what are yours in Darkfall? It’s not like you were in Zealot when they wrote the book. Were you the leader of any major clans? Are you a fantastic PvPer? How about crafting — got all of those masteries and feats yet?

        • Rammstein says:

          Asking for credentials in a debate about ideas is an appeal to authority.

        • SynCaine says:

          The problem is you think any of those matter; they don’t.

          Could I have been a clan leader? Pretty sure if I can create a 30+ pilot WH Corp that is now in one of the most powerful WH alliances in EVE, I think I could have pulled people together in DF, had it been something worth pulling people into. I did help guide OTG, including the decision to live out of Kvit initially, when OTG had over 100 actives.

          Have a killed just about every mob, have multiple masteries, lived out of a prime placed house, and been in countless sieges, and have a full bank? Yup, but again, none of those really matter.

          Am I a top PvP player? Well I’m in the top 5% in LoL (because in that game I somewhat care to get better), a game of tens of millions, so I think I have a pretty decent understanding of that playstyle.

          None of which ultimately matters, beyond the fact that I understand the basics and more of the game in question here.

        • Rammstein says:

          I wasn’t going to say this because appeal to authority is such an awful fallacy; but your continual presence on this blog makes your fallacious appeal to authority so hypocritical and ironic that I decided to make the point. You have to be aware that you post here enough to make any allegation that Syn’s ideas aren’t worth the time of examining and refuting/supporting them highly hypocritical, right?

        • sid6.7 says:

          @Rammstein – Why would I want to read a blog where I agreed with everything the author wrote?

          Also, I never said Syn wasn’t a smart guy and there are some opinions that we definitely share. I’m simply far more likely to post a comment when I disagree than when I agree.

          @Syncaine – I’m done defending Jonah. He doesn’t deserve this heroic defense he’s getting from me. I appreciate his POV and clearly many others do as well (including other people who don’t like him). So you at least have to recognize he must be saying something that resonates with the community even if you don’t agree with it.

          In the end, it boils down to what I said above… should AV develop DF for the existing players who still play or for the players they lost or never had?

          Down one path lies the status quo (at best) and down the other lies the path of a potential NGE-like mistake.

        • SynCaine says:

          Being popular on Forumfall is easy. For example: https://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?386781-Hi-AV-We-are-unsubscribed-but-we-re-still-here&p=6244431&highlight=#post6244431

          Now, think about what Jonah is suggesting. In a vacuum would it be neat to be able to have all the stuff he suggests? Sure. Does it get you a bunch of +1s from Forumfall? Yup. Is it something you want AV to do now, or ever? Fuck no.

          The game can’t handle current-day sieges, do you really want to increase the stress on the server by doing any of the stuff Jonah suggested? Or do we know, from seeing what GW2 does in WvW, or what CCP constantly talks about with fleet battles and TIDI, or countless other examples across the genre, that such customization and large-scale PvP are like oil and vinegar?

          But see that’s the thing with Forumfall, most people are short sighted or simply clueless, and appealing to them is easy. If I wanted to be Mr. Popular on Forumfall, I’d just +1 every dumb but popular idea, and occasional make a worthless post that can be summed up as “Buff loot!”, “Add content”, “Make the game fun AV!”. People would +1 the shit out of all that, and it wouldn’t add one bit to moving DF forward.

        • Rynnik says:

          Sid said:

          “So you at least have to recognize he must be saying something that resonates with the community even if you don’t agree with it.”

          I think everyone recognizes THAT.

          The thread where Jonah posted that response to me, as Syn documented here, was about how the community is clueless as to what the fuck AV should do next. The entire premise that got him raging was that his stupidity WAS resonating with the community and was actually a prime example of the retardation that was crippling what little hope there was of helping guide AV on the right path.

          Forumfail community is very much part of the problem, NOT part of the solution as people like Jonah believes and he went on to demonstrate very succinctly one small part of why that is the case. The other parts involve his complete lack of the understanding of anything related to pvp sandbox full loot MMORPGs, other than the interactions of combat mechanics and his ability use them well in game.

        • Rammstein says:

          “Why would I want to read a blog where I agreed with everything the author wrote?”

          What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

    • spacepilot says:

      There’s some truth to this, sadly. It always amazes me how most of the vocal people in a PvP sandbox game’s community are douches who take more pleasure in trolling than they do in actually building a great sandbox community. And then these same people write blogs where they lament the fact that PvP sandbox games never catch on while ESOSWTORGW2 keeps getting made year upon year with a different skin, lol.

      Makes perfect sense, and it’s a self-perpetuating cycle of wasted potential whose crowning achievement is EVE and whose legacy is the fact that about 500k players out of hundreds of millions want anything to do with a sandbox game or its community.

      Anyway, keep trolling, good sirs, it’s doing wonders for the genre you claim to love!

      • Raelyf says:

        “[...] the vocal people in a PvP sandbox game’s community [...]”

        You could replace “PvP sandbox game” with just about any gaming genre and that statement would still be true. It’s no more or less a reflection of the genre then barrens chat is on the “pve themepark game” genre.

        “Makes perfect sense, and it’s a self-perpetuating cycle of wasted potential whose crowning achievement is EVE and whose legacy is the fact that about 500k players out of hundreds of millions want anything to do with a sandbox game or its community.”

        Wasted potential implies there is potential to be wasted. MMO sandboxes are few and far between, and their budgets are nearly non-existent. It’s not that there aren’t players clamoring for a pvp sandbox (see: enormous success of DayZ, Rust, etc and the recent resurrection of Rogue-likes, among other things) it’s that there are hardly any MMO sandboxes worth playing.

      • Rieth Mhide says:

        “and it’s a self-perpetuating cycle of wasted potential whose crowning achievement is EVE and whose legacy is the fact that about 500k players out of hundreds of millions want anything to do with a sandbox game or its community.”

        where exactly do you see hundreds of millions of mmo players?
        wow has 7M and all the others have surely less than that put together
        also its not mutually exclusive, as in a wow player might very well play lotro or eve or any other mmo as well

        I’d say the total mmo pool is closer to 10M
        500k PAYING CUSTOMER out of that is not that bad now, easily makes it the 2nd biggest sub-based game after wow as all the others are f2p, with the exception of FFXIV
        not sure about their numbers but they defo dont have 190 M to make up your “hundreds of millions” playerbase

        • spacepilot says:

          Hundreds of milliions is a number that I pulled out of my ass, admittedly. But given the Asian market it’s probably closer than the 10 million you pulled out of your ass.

          In any case, the numbers aren’t the point I was trying to make, so congrats on missing it.

          Keep being douchenozzle trolls and enjoy the 500k, I guess. /shrug

        • Rammstein says:

          Yes, since I own CCP, that 500k is millions of dollars of profit in my pocket every month. Thanks non-troll troll accuser dude, for your well wishes.

  2. Igolbug OWE says:

    I find it odd that Syncaine quit(went inactive) DF not long after joining the largest zerg that was in Darkfall. Perhaps you had nothing to do because you were allied with everybody?

    • SynCaine says:

      Naw, it really has nothing to do with that. I love zerging people down. My core group all quit around that time or a little before, I wasn’t that into DF already, and I just never made the full effort to get involved with SIN. I really should have just left with the rest of Proxy, but thought maybe being in a very active clan would inspire me. It didn’t.

      • Igolbug OWE says:

        My core group quit right after I did. You had to be an idiot to not see where the game was going after they implemented scrapping. I was a 100% pure crafter so the scrapping economy coming in screwed me hard with the inflation.
        We just started playing Eve last month, I really wish there was a way to progress skills by playing the game would make eve so much better, will always be behind people in terms of char development just because they have been subbed longer.

        • SynCaine says:

          If you get into econ in EVE, and get really good at it, you can always buy a pilot with the specific skills you want/need. That method aside, most ships (other than T2 BS, T3, and capitals) you can fly at 95% efficiency in 6 months or so with direct training.

  3. anon says:

    I unsubbed as soon as they made it obvious they had no Idea how to encourage pvp. No reason to seige in a mass pvp game means it will revert to pvp for pvp sake ppl and that’s all thats left. Without a solid reason to seige no point to playing the game and its sad cuz once the bugs were mostly worked out dfuw was some if the best mass pvp I’ve played since lineage 2. Oddly as it is tho NC soft managed to keep the conflict drivers in place I suspect its one of tge few reasons it took so long b4 it went f2p even with f2p private servers all over the place l2 kept around 2mil subs well into the age of wow. ne way the point is that if open world raiding and sieges had been nerfed in l2 it would have been dead a year after release.

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