Time to be a coward

What happens when you trip over yourself one too many times? Get the ban stick out!

It’s funny that Tobold denies deleting my comment in that thread, yet despite seeing the follow-up comment I made here (not deleted yet), he stayed quiet. Strange huh? Not like this is the same guy who disabled comments because of his thin skin in the past, or has gone on crazy censorship sprees when the mood strikes. Nope, totally different guy.

Good times. Off to pick up that 8,000,000 vanity item for my spreadsheet sim.

About SynCaine

Former hardcore raider turned casual gamer.
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53 Responses to Time to be a coward

  1. Rammstein says:

    Posting on Tobold’s blog is a waste of time. Much better just to reply to him here, where he can’t selectively delete what you write. I’d say just don’t bother at all, but your posts mocking him are enjoyable reads.

    • Shukaro says:

      I would accuse you of just being a dummy account run by SinCaine, but you seem even more unnecessarily vitriolic than him. I guess we’ll never know.

      • Rammstein says:

        Too slow, I already accused you of being Tobold’s mother, you’re just copying my worst lines now.

      • Rammstein says:

        Although to be honest, what I really want know is where I can access your systemic categorization of which vitriol is “necessary”. I know since you expected SynCaine to archive everything he’s ever written that you will have that information neatly stored away :)

  2. Nils says:

    Your first comment on his post today was the kind of post I had deleted outright. That having said, his reaction now is not only not very smart, but also childish.

    • SynCaine says:

      Why? Calling someone out for talking like they understand a group of players, when clearly they don’t, is not valid?

      The comment was short because that is basically Tobold being Tobold. Whenever he talks about people who enjoyed vanilla WoW, or EVE, or PvP, it’s always so comically off-base and, well, wrong, that it makes anything he says about that group a joke.

      • Rammstein says:

        “Why? Calling someone out for talking like they understand a group of players, when clearly they don’t, is not valid? ”

        There’s some circularity here. If he could understand your argument as to why he didn’t understand said group of players, then what would prevent him from just simply understanding that group of players in the first place? That’s obviously not a deductively true statement, but I believe it to be often true in his case.

        Think of it this way. Tobold likes to brag about his readership numbers. We all know that games like Farmville or CoD far outperform more involved games like DF and EVE. Do we join Farmville games merely to deride the participants for not playing more intellectually involved games? It’s not just ineffective, it’s fundamentally incorrect. The kind of person who is capable of enjoying chess at a master level is not the kind of person who is likely to be playing Farmville, so people self-select the appropriate level and find their community much more quickly and effectively than we could do for them. Tobold and his large readership are the Farmville of gaming blogs, sad to say.

        Tobold’s posts, as you often point out yourself, are by-and-large critiques of “elite gamers”, made by someone unable to play at that level (or even function in the games they enjoy) or understand the motivations of those who can, populated by commenters who agree with him emotionally and disagree with him on irrelevancies merely because his argumentative style promotes those responders. You can’t win arguing with him, as he has no capability to change in the way you’d wish him to. The only useful response is to call out his egregious blunders in a forum where he can’t delete your reply, not to “win” the argument but to provide the obvious counterpoint for those young or ill-informed enough to benefit from such aid.

        Sorry to write a post coming so close to condescension, but he’s clearly gotten a bit under your skin, which is his one undeniable talent.

        • SynCaine says:

          Naw, not under my skin. At the end of the day, I’m entertained. Being banned is as entertaining to me as him coming around on the burnout-by-content-change thing. Different angles, but all ultimately entertaining. Which is why I blog.

        • Rammstein says:

          I was probably projecting a bit then, but I still think you’re better off banned.

  3. Telke says:

    So…you posted some fairly troll-y stuff on his blog post, ending with an argument line as stupid as ‘you just don’t understand!’ and now you’re crying that he decided to not bother dealing with you? Lololol, pretty hardcore. It’s his blog. He can do what he wants.

    • Rammstein says:

      So…you posted some fairly troll-y stuff on Syncaine’s blog post, ending with an argument line as stupid as “He can do what he wants.” Now you’re laughing because he got banned by someone notorious for banning any reasonable dissenter? Lolol, pretty hardcore. It’s his blog. He can do what he wants.

  4. Tim says:

    Cry moar newb.

  5. bhagpuss says:

    That was a good read!

    Except when I post just after I wake up, which is always a bad idea, I tend to tailor what I say to the blog I’m commenting on. I would phrase things very differently here than I would over there, and differently again at West karana or TAGN.

    I do enjoy Tobold’s blog, although he often infuriates me. He has a knack of generating interesting discussions even though his own prose style is arid. I learned a long time ago that there’s absolutely no point going head to head with him on his turf, though. He has all the power there.

    At least when he bans you he tells you he’s done it, though. I do appreciate when people do that.

    In terms of the argument, iI think you have the right of it from what I read there but I’m not sure it’s worth falling out over. If opponents can fall out…

  6. Ahtchu says:

    What can you do sometimes though? Loudmouth apologetics are ruining the genre and they *need* to be challenged. You can knowingly ‘troll them’, but truly, *they* are the ultimate trolls, and I sincerely believe somewhere deep down they know it. Defending a popular side against attacks is a surefire way to win supporters, but talk about hallow considering the lack of substance used to make said stance.
    I don’t post much less give hits to blogs I know are going to twist conclusions, selectively read and/or pull way out of context. And while I don’t always agree with those whose blogs I frequent (to include yours, at times), I can respect the honesty and openly-stated stances, coupled with LOGICAL REASONING.
    The [WoW] apologetics, the fanbois? The ‘you’re just angry games aren’t made for you anymore’ and ‘take off your rose colored glasses’ statements? … Let the blind continue to lead the blind, for what good is describing sight to those who cannot (or refuse to) see?

  7. Bernard says:

    Q1. You get the feeling that Tobold doesn’t understand EvE, hardcore players or what is wrong with WoW.

    Do you:

    a) Try to explain it to him. You’ve tried before, but maybe this time you will be able to find some kind of concensus, or at least agree to disagree.

    b) Stop reading his blog. What difference does it make to you?

    c) Say something provocative.

    • Anti-Stupidity League says:

      1) To boost his readership numbers, Tobold trolls something about Eve, PVP or some game that is not WoW.
      2) Eve players (for example) take the bait and tell him how and why he’s wrong.
      3) Tobold claims that antisocial Eve playing sociopaths come to his blog to troll in comments and they must be wrong because they don’t see the same issue in the game as he claims to see.
      4) Goto 1.

    • SynCaine says:

      A) Even when we make some progress, he regresses (see Burnout).

      B) I read blogs for entertainment. He entertains me.

      C) I do try.

  8. Tobold says:

    Syncaine: You have left hundreds of comments on my blog, nearly all of them negative, disagreeing, trolling, and sometimes insulting. And I always let them all through. Why should I have selectively deleted ONE of your comments, and then lied about it? What was the comment about, and why did you not write about it on your blog before, as you usually do?

    Your interpretation is that you posted a comment on my blog and I deleted it and lied about it. My interpretation is that it is you who is lying, because it is extremely easy to falsely accuse me of having censored a comment nobody but you ever saw. You were losing an argument about whether World of Warcraft was silly, and faked a controversy to serve as strawman argument. Alternative interpretation would be some sort of technical glitch.

    • Alex says:

      No, you were losing an argument, like you often do, but then you act like an entitled spoiled brat who takes the ball home if he’s losing the game.

      If you had bothered to read Syn’s posts you would’ve seen his comment:

      syncaine.com said…

      Did my comment on this thread go into your spam filter, or did you intentionally not approve it?

      21/10/11 18:48

      So if there’s a liar here, it’s you. Grow the fuck up.

      • Shukaro says:

        If he didn’t want people to see the comment, why wouldn’t he have deleted that one as well?

        • SynCaine says:

          Why approve that one and not state that the original is not in the spam folder, so it can be posted again?

        • Shukaro says:

          Realistically speaking, he was probably going through dozens of comments awaiting moderation, and not really reading them in depth. Instead of making a sarcastic post, you could have just sent the comment again.

        • SynCaine says:

          You honestly believe Tobold was “not really reading them in depth.”? That’s about as far from “realistically speaking” as you can get IMO.

        • Shukaro says:

          And so that excuses you from taking the comment that was, according to you, maliciously moderated, and resending it or posting it here if it meant so much to you?

        • SynCaine says:

          Who said it meant so much to me? I’m not the one banning people and making posts around one comment, am I? The most focus I’ve given the comment is talking about it here with you.

        • Shukaro says:

          Don’t forget you made a post whining about how your “comment” was “deleted.”

        • Rammstein says:

          If you don’t stop calling people childish whiners, we might have to start calling you Tobold’s Mom :)

    • SynCaine says:

      The comment had Google Analytics showing Hardcore Casual vs Tobold in search results, among other things. Initially I did not jump to the conclusion that you filtered it, hence asking if it went into the spam folder. If you had checked it and it was not there, I’m not sure why you did not reply to the follow-up. You saw it (since you approve all comments before they are posted). And the first part of the post you linked to was a reply to the ‘missing’ comment.

      You painted yourself into a corner over at your blog, misunderstanding (as usual) my comments about EVE, misquoting sections of a post on burnout (that completely contradicted the point you were trying to make), and used your god powers to reduce the damage before it got even worse. It’s a cowardly move, and now I’m using my god powers here to point it out.

      • Shukaro says:

        You could always just post the “original comment” instead of doing everything except that.

        • SynCaine says:

          How could I repost the comment? I don’t have it saved…

        • Shukaro says:

          Don’t be silly, I’m sure you can remember what you were going to say.

        • SynCaine says:

          My comment above is a summary, and the first part of my post here on this blog covered it as well.

        • Shukaro says:

          Your comment above is a topic, not a summary, and if by post, you mean this post, it contains absolutely nothing that is relevant to said topic. This is a fairly safe assumption as neither next or previous post are relevant either. It doesn’t take much effort to rearticulate whatever points you made in the “original comment.”

        • SynCaine says:

          This is the post.
          Look at the graph I posted, and compare it to what Tobold was saying about MMO interest and blog decline.

          As for the ‘missing’ comment, again, the main point it was making was showing Google Analytics with “Hardcore Casual” and “Tobold” as the search terms over “Syncaine” and “Tobold”, as Tobold originally linked. It also talked about how even that was inaccurate, as typing “Tobold” might mean I’m looking for the blog, or for stuff about the author. Typing in “Syncaine” or “Hardcore Casual” is pretty clear, and they don’t mix.

          Congrats, I’ve now spent more time explaining this than I thought possible :)

        • Shukaro says:

          So it would have been just too much work to retype those two points and post another comment?

          Doesn’t seem like any work at all, also seems a whole lot less annoying than having to drag whatever you allege to have said in the comment out of you. I mean, if by some chance you are right and he did moderate the comment, you could have posted it here and stopped me from from using quotation marks when discussing your “comment.”

  9. Alex says:

    And by your own posts then any game is silly: batman doesn’t exist, spaceships don’t exist, elfs don’t exist. That makes them all silly, right?

    What an asshole.

    • Dril says:

      Someone’s very angry indeed that their hero Syncaine got a comment deleted.

    • kweyam says:

      Cry little babies, cry!

    • Ranzal says:

      Wait?! Batman doesn’t exist?!?!

      This whole argument is quite silly really. While I tend to agree with Syncaine’s thoughts about the genre, and genuinely believe Tobold discusses game mechanics he simply has no clue about (i.e. – hardcore), the whole idea that a blog “argument” can change people’s perceptions of their games of choice is laughable… No one “wins an argument” here. Readers simply gravitate towards certain writers because they can relate to the content text. But if winning arguments is Tobold’s reason for even discussing the MMO industry, I feel terribly sorry for his readers.

      On a side note: I’m a firm believer that casual gamers who frequently blog about the hardcore community, like Tobold, have little to no right to do so. Tobold should take heed, because as a hardcore gamer myself, it simply leads to resentment of him, rather than valuable insight. He condemns the hardcore when he has never experienced any part of the community (or very little in an era when raiding was a face roll). Simply put, casuals have never experienced the hardcore mindset… Yet they condemn them every chance they get. Meanwhile, hardcore can log on in their spare time and experience casual gaming whenever they please. After all, that is what the genre is built around now anyway: Short bursts of empty fun.

  10. mk2net says:

    And it’s not even Friday…oh well.

    Flame War!!!

  11. Raffles says:

    Deleting comments which further discussion is just petty, shows how shallow a post was in the first place and how little faith the OP had in his comments. ‘lol nub’ posts dont deserve to be read and should be purged, but legable opinion, even if its contradictory to the OP and not outright trolling should be left alone to be discussed.

    Not that some of the bloggers I’ve seen here, or on Tobolds blog, complaining about post removal would do that. Oh no sir. Nils.

  12. Smokes says:

    I don’t normally comment on many blogs, but I just wanted to say, some of the comments about all this, over on Tobold’s latest post, are absolutely hilarious.

    The page long wall of text comment is particularly amusing. If you have a half hour spare to try and get through it, that is.

    • Shukaro says:

      There’s really only one reason I still read this blog, and that’s because SynCaine occasionally posts intelligent, insightful things.

      There’s really only one reason I comment on this blog, and that’s because it’s sort of a social experiment to see how zealots respond to argument.

  13. Nils says:

    I posted this on Tobold’s blog as well. It will probably be considered smart-aleck, but whatever.

    This are just my 2 cents.

    Both Tobold and Syncaine got well-visited and interesting blogs. If you don’t read them yet, you should start reading them now. Both have a sharp intellect and can argue well if they want.

    Unfortunately, both also tend to escalate difficult situations in a kind of “offense in the best defense” manner. But if you feel personally attacked, offense is never the best defense on the internet, because everybody has the same resources (insults) and doesn’t incur any penalties for using them. Neither parties’ stock of mean insults ever diminishes. Nobody every capitulates because he lost too much blood or can’t take it anymore. Offense is ineffective.

    Both should try to understand that there is no battle going on unless you make it one. Don’t allow yourself to assume a defensive frame of mind: There is no need to defend yourself; you’re safe behind that screen! Act in a way that makes your blogs become better. In German they say: start thinking from the end. What do you want to achieve? How do you get there?

    Finally, I have yet to meet a person in my life that genuinely wanted me harm. Maybe I have just been lucky, but giving the other party the benefit of a doubt and trying to understand its motives is usually the best strategy. And even if it turns out that the other party, indeed, wants you harm, you’re in a much better position if you spent some time understanding its way of thinking.

  14. Gamer Man says:

    Tobold bought a Kindle…lol. Those things are going to be worthless in about 5 months. E-Readers are on the way out. Just use your fucking tablet PC with the Kindle app you morons

    • Raffles says:

      several reasons why you misunderstand the e-reader market – most importantly, battery life. Tablet batteries really dont last long, and backlighting for a book drains power like nobodies business. Kindles and the like can last about a month on a single charge.

      The other is eye strain. Tables are lit – nice for reading in the dark, but this causes eye strain, like using a monitor. The kindle is not back lit and uses magnatised ink to form the words, so you really are reading printed characters.

      Third, and not to be sniffed at, is the kindle doesnt do anything else, there’s nothing to distract you. If I’m trying to work on a internet enabled machine, i get easily distracted, kindes browsing power isnt what you call reliabley usable, even on the 3g models. Sometimes, and I know this might surprise some peope…sometimes, I just want to read a book. Dont knock the kindle until you’ve tried it.

  15. Esteban says:

    It’s an entertaining little blog war in a teapot, but Tobold has a point about censoring a single comment and lying about it being, well, in no way useful to him or his cause. He may be a tad fusty and eccentric, but he has a brand going on, and he’s not stupid.

    Betting on comment gotten all ate by the interbutts here, boss.

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