(Editor note: Stats and writeup provided by Delpez as always. Also while we are currently at the cap of 50 players in the clan, a few spots are alts so if you would like to join us, please drop me a note here or via email and we can make room. Any level/experience welcome, just need to be active and willing to learn.)
Supreme Cream! vs ZoooWalanD SUG
|
Supreme Cream |
Enemy |
|
|
Average TH Level |
7.32 |
7.62 |
|
Score |
126 |
134 |
|
Total Attacks Used |
82 |
82 |
|
Total 3 Star Attacks |
35 |
43 |
|
Total 3 Star % |
42.7 |
52.4 |
|
3 Stars Against Same Level |
28 |
19 |
|
3 Star % Against Same Level |
45.9 |
46.3 |
|
3 Stars Against Lower Level |
3 |
19 |
|
3 Star % Against Lower Level |
42.9 |
61.3 |
|
TH4,5&6 3 Stars |
8 |
3 |
|
TH4,5&6 3 Star % |
50.0 |
50.0 |
|
TH7 3 Stars |
13 |
12 |
|
TH7 3 Stars % |
50.0 |
66.7 |
|
TH7 3 Stars (same level) |
10 |
6 |
|
TH7 3 Stars % (same level) |
71.4 |
75.0 |
|
TH8 3 Stars |
11 |
25 |
|
TH8 3 Star % |
35.5 |
55.6 |
|
TH8 3 Stars (same level) |
9 |
9 |
|
TH8 3 Star % (same level) |
33.3 |
45.0 |
|
TH8 Ave Stars / Attack (same level) |
2.1 |
2.2 |
|
TH9&10 3 Stars |
3 |
3 |
|
TH9&10 2 Star % |
33.3 |
23.1 |
|
TH9&10 3 Stars (same level) |
2 |
1 |
|
TH9&10 2 Star % (same level) |
33.3 |
14.3 |
|
TH9&10 Ave Stars / Attack (same level) |
1.67 |
1.14 |
This was a tense war, which we unfortunately lost by a slim margin. However, one can learn more from these close defeats than from any number of easy wins. So what do the stats say?
Purely based on TH level, our opponents were a lot stronger than us. The difference equates to 15 TH’s, meaning if we line up the clans by TH level, 15 of their guys could attack down. Activity was similar; we had four inactive players and a number of our clan did not use their second attack. I don’t think it would have made a difference though, since there were very few easy bases left to hit. Their victory was based upon a superior 3-star percentage (52% vs. 43%). Numbers are very similar for same level bases, but they scored many more 3-stars against lower level bases (19 vs. 3). This once again reflects the fact that they had more high level bases.
Our lower level bases scored eight 3-stars at the same percentage as our opponents, which is a good return. I’d like to highlight a very innovative attack by Kobea Thris on a TH7 (second attack of the war). As a TH6 he basically used balloons, giants and wizards (no healers) to 3-star a TH7 base. It was a flawed base to be sure, but he saw the flaw and was not afraid to use innovative tactics to exploit it. Well worth watching! At TH7 their 3-star percentage was a lot higher than ours, but against same level bases it was basically the same. Once again, this was because we had to attack up (especially towards the end of the war) while they attacked down.
TH8 is where they hit us really hard, both in number of 3-stars and 3-star percentages. Most of their 3-stars were against lower level bases (16 of their 25), but they also had a higher 3-star percentage against same level bases. This was because a number of their TH8’s were very advanced, while a lot of our TH8’s are newly promoted. Also, a clear learning from this war is that a dragon army struggles to 3-star a maxed TH8 base. We had some good attacks against their top TH8’s, but the result was usually a 2-star.
Our TH9&10 bases did quite well, but we don’t have enough of these bases (yet) to swing the war if we’re losing against the lower bases.
Some lessons and points for discussion:
Dragons have served us well for a while now, but they seem to struggle against maxed TH8 bases. However, I’m not sure if there are many other options before TH9. A decent dragon attack against a strong TH8 is still a safe 2-star, which is a good result against a powerful base. For example, our opponents couldn’t manage any 3-stars against our top six TH8’s. If 3-stars are critical (like towards the end of this war), mass Hog Riders might become an option. From reading up a bit it sounds like they can smash a high TH8 base, but their chance for a blow-out is also higher (Giant Bomb).
Having said that, mass dragons are probably still the safest bet for TH7&8’s. Tactics can vary, depending on the defending base. Personally I’ve found ten dragons, three rage spells and balloons in the clan castle to be the best setup to take out tougher bases, but opinions may vary. However, it is NOT a good idea to drop all the dragons in one spot. Firstly, it increases the chance of all the dragons flying around the perimeter, and secondly high level wizards can murder them when clumped together (just see this war for some examples). It’s better to drop half the dragons in a line; when they’ve taken out the perimeter the outside dragons may start skirting around the base, but the centre dragons will core inwards. Now the rest of the dragon can be dropped behind those dragons that are inside the base.
Something I’d also like to bring up is our choice of defensive clan castle troops. The Valkyrie is awesome against ground attacks, but most of the effective TH7&8 attacks come through the air. Also, most TH7&8 bases should be able to defend against ground attacks in any case (from same level bases). Is it not an option to stock max wizards in our TH7&8 bases? In this war they were sometimes very effective against our dragons, and they’re not useless against ground attacks either.
Finally, we seem to run into supply issues with our attacking clan troops. This is understandable, since most people want max balloons, dragons or healers and we only have a small number of players (three or four?) able to supply those. I also imagine that it puts a lot of pressure on the likes of Dot and Syc to fill all those war orders. Isn’t it an option to only ask for max troops when planning to attack a tough base? For example, attacking a TH7 base with dragons surely don’t require a max dragon (or balloons) in the clan castle? Even asking for one level below max (5* loons, 3* dragon, 3* healer etc.) allows a lot more people to contribute towards the war effort. Why is this an issue? Because people sometimes miss their attacks while waiting for troops, or by the time they get the troops they’re out of profitable bases to hit. Obviously this will become less of an issue as we get more players to TH9&10.
In any case, lots of numbers and random ideas – I’d love to hear your comments!
Hardcore Casual 
I’ve been a proponent of witches/wizards in CC since I rejoined at th7 – basically for the reason youve mentioned., you might even remember a conversation we had on the topic back then! There is defintely no need for th7s to be requesting maxloons/dragons to take out other mid th7s, a 2 or 3* dragon is more than enough as long as proper strategy is utilized (dragon placement you mentioned) to ensure complete destruction. And there are quite a few of us training to make 3* dragons at the moment. Im sure that alone would remove alot of pressure on our few th10’s. (Althoug putting witches in the defenders CC would then put more pressure on those guys….
With regards to th8 tactics, it seems that some people have luck using HoLoWi variants and GoWiPe to secure 2 and 3* against max th8 and low th9’s at th8. Only problem being that both these strategy’s require much more advanced tactics then mass dragon or 105 tactics, although once mastered, from what I can tell have a higher success rate against these stronger bases.
Max witches can be trained at TH9, so we wouldn’t rely on our TH10s for those. They are expensive in terms of DE though, and DE is always needed for barb king and archer queen.
Reason I really like the valk is because it can turn a 1-2 star attack into a zero, which means more attempts spent on lower bases. I agree that at higher levels, they are of questionable value, but I think if someone is baiting out clan troops, they are going to fairly easily kill anything we put inside. I do want to try mass archers in the 35+ space bases, just to see how annoying that is to deal with, though we would need more people with high level archers to really make that work.
As for TH8 attack strats; I was fairly successful with golems, pekkas and wizards, with the clan troops being witches, though that was when I was already well into TH8. Key is you need to train up the pekka, which takes time. I think lvl3 drag with loons is still viable, just requires more thought than “dump and watch” ala TH7. Hogs work too, but again training them up is difficult because you are using a lot of DE, and that DE is also needed to level up the barb king.
Yeah valk sub th7 is godlike, can absolutely decimate giant/healer combos. You will get no disagreement from me there. I feel like witches could be the way to go vs dragon attacks though, skele to distract the drakes whilst the witch does the dmg. Maybe a 1 witch and the rest archers to try and keep costs down?
Mass archers could well work as well to be honest, I hadn’t fully considered that as an option.
Mass dragon/105 definitely looses a lot of potency mid-late th8 so my plan is once my lvl3 drakes are trained, and my bk is 10 (traing for 8 now) I will be looking to get my Pekka and Golems up to start trying out GoWiPe, I’m hoping that by pushing up to 2050-2150 trophies and farming with loonian I wont have too many problems with DE. We shall see.
To add – I’m fairly sure at th8 its possible to make war bases with impossible/very hard to lure CC troops. Pretty sure my base is almost unlurable, at least without committing a few strong troops to achieve it . And dragons are shit at CC luring.
I’m not sure the witch would summon skels vs dragons, since they can’t attack air. Can’t confirm though.
I still use lvl 1 Golems at TH9. Upgrading them would be nice, but it’s not the power spike upgrading pekkas is as its another 500hp and a bit of damage. Each pekka upgrade adds a ton of damage in addition to a nice HP bump, which is pretty key to keeping them moving instead of swinging away at a wall while getting zapped.
Farming at 2000k+ is interesting. You certainly find plenty of bases with 1k+ DE, but easy bases with 200k+ gold/elixer is much harder.
Its a shame we cant sandbox an attack to test the witch theory.
Good news RE: Golem upgrade, I wasn’t looking forward to trying to stockpile 60kDE to get that upgraded if I’m honest. And I’m pretty bored of barch/baming easy bases, half the reason I want to move towards loonian is to try and core some of the the tougher bases for sweet loot.
Don’t worry, witch upgrade is 75k :)
Fuck.
On the plus side lvl 2 is the current max for witch. On the downside, you really need that upgrade as it increases the max number of skels the witch summons, along with booster her HP/damage.
Is GoWiPe effective at TH8 without the Archer Queen? All the attacks I’ve seen were from TH9’s, and the Queen did a ton of damage.
I did alright with it, but yea, queen is a big addition at TH9.
I’ve got my PEKKAs at level 2 and have been trying GoWiPe but am finding it pretty tough to get a 3 star against developed TH8s due to the following issues:
– Not funnelling properly and watching the PEKKAs go walkabout
– getting my wizards wiped out by bombs/spring traps (hurts when you only have 10-12 of them
– being a muppet and not taking care of cc troops effectively.
Generally finding that you can at least get a two star by raging on the TH though.
Going to try and mix up my composition for more effective results as well as working hard on being less muppety.
I was actually planning an even more dangerous attack against 39 with loons, hogs, and wizards, but I needed max hogs for it to work, and only Dot has those, so I went with the other attack instead. That was probably for the best since 39 had a high chance of face plant.
Loons seem to be very effective on th6 and even some th7’s, especially if they can take out point defenses quickly without aa in the area. Then a well timed heal spell can keep them alive when taking out inner defenses.
The biggest challenge I am having is when to drop my kill squad to clean up after giants or loons. Getting better though and looking forward to having th7 upgrades in a week or so.
As soon as everything is firing at the giants HillJack, the defences don’t need to be dead just occupied
Great writeup, great comments. I’m planning a drake upgrade (to lvl 3) to begin in the next 24-48 hours.
Once that is done, will look at other combos to take out max th8 and early th9.
Maybe this link has some answers on witch in cc (can’t watch at the moment):
https://www.google.com/search?q=witch+in+cc+&oq=witch+in+cc+&aqs=chrome.0.57j0j62l2.7206j0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Pretty expensive either way.
If you guys are looking for some videos of Hog attacks, HoLoWi, GoWiPe, etc check out this guy’s youtube page. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVYoFiHGj6xTNbaclC-Gyfw
He does a really good job of dissecting bases, too. Knowing how to attack a base is key at any level.
I can’t do these attacks yet but just watching his strats gives me ideas for my own attacks.
Those are the videos I’ve been watching with the HoLo strats. There is one where he has an example or 2 of HoLo attacks from a th8, I will try to find it when I’m home/on lunch.
I’ve thought the same about the use of the valk. They do dominate at the low levels but have only been a small time killer lately. In fact the only really help the CC troops have been is as a time killer (but that is most likely a failing of my base)
I don’t think filling with all wizards is the best answer though or with any 1 unit, because they move in tandem and are extremely easy to kill off. I think having a number of units could be useful as they all move at different speeds so you can’t just round them up into a nice little group and surround them with archers while the wizards all try and attack the same target. But this would follow my mantra of them being a time waster not necessarily an army breaker.
The bases where I did see it work (and I’ve been a sucker for falling for this myself once) was when a hole was left in the defences and the clan castle was directly next to the gap, so all dragons get dropped on the same spot and the wizards are all on top of them instantly.
What could be interesting is pairing the valk up with a healer, would be hilarious to watch at least (a joke) but I’m not sure what the best idea would be. I think the current tactic we have is a little better than all wizards as it covers more bases, but I’d like to hear some more opinions and experiences on this.
I am actually finding dragons to be more fun as I take on the higher bases (I’ve only really ever hit TH8 bases even when I just dinged 7) as I do think there is still some skill in using them, but it is all on the setup. I don’t think it is entirely true to say they aren’t as useful on max TH8 bases as most are set up to be anti-dragon (most likely because most people use them), if you are able to identify this I still think they are a solid unit to use.
I am planning to eventually go with the GoWiPe strategy but this will most likely take a few weeks as I prepare all the buildings and relevant research.
Thinking about it maybe a mix of minions, barbs, and archers would be best vs drags. Like 6min/12arch/1barb or similar.
Like you said they all move at different speeds so more breaths would be wasted from more dragons, giving the ADs time to hit them more. Also, cheap.
Honestly I don’t mind the donation stuff. The biggest issues are either:
1. I have a busy weekend (see: this attack weekend) when I was a t a PD course all weekend and therefore didn’t keep on top of donations. Also I got about 7 hours of sleep total all weekend, so I’m pleasantly surprised that I didn’t completely screw everything up.
2. Stocking the right troops in a timely manner. I try to have 20-30 max loons ready for war drop since they’ve replaced max dragons as the “go to” request item. But if I get that wrong, it’s 8mins per loon to train more, so it can easily be 20-30 mins from the request until I can fill it. Just keep that in mind when requesting.
3. I delay my own attacks since I don’t generally use the same troops as low-levels (sadly, since I miss my balloons!)
Good war overall.
Thoughts on TH10 wars.
1. Def first troops (hogs, loons, giants) are harder to use well since they don’t bait CC troops.
2. Healers (even max ones) are just inadequate for the incoming damage (in my experience)
3. The higher the base, the more of a blend you want to use to handle different issues. I’ve been realizing the value of 2-3 giants to pull deep CC troops (since they can survive long enough to get close enough to make it happen) then a few archers to pull to the sides, then mages/heroes to kill. Even with mass dragons I like to (if I’m not being lazy) use heroes/mages to clear sides to try to channel dragons up the middle.
As to donations. Honestly I don’t mind. CC is my “open, collect, donate, close” game of choice. And a lot of the troops are things that I spent a *ton* upgrading, and now don’t use anymore. So it makes me happy.
Oh, CC troops.
I’ve been thinking we should move away from Valks for our top 3 at least. If I get attacked, it’s rarely a mass ground attack (no stats to back that up, just my vague memory). At higher levels it seems like air defenses are the priority, so maybe that’s a thought.
What’s interesting at high levels is max giants get a MASSIVE stat boost on the final upgrade, yet they aren’t really great attacking TH9 or TH10 bases. Kinda weird how that works. Same but to a lesser extend max healers; the stats on paper are great, but in reality max giants/healers just isn’t an effective war attack.
For defenders, the one thing holding us back from doing something like mass archers is we don’t have enough TH9+ players yet. You, Sic, and myself is only 15 archers for everyone else, only 10 for our own castle. Lower level archers aren’t terrible, but not great either. Plus if we do a wizard/archer mix, we would want our high levels giving the wizards, so that again leads to lower-level archers in castles.
I’m leaning towards a max dragon in high level bases, with archers or wizards taking up the remaining spots. Maybe still go with the Valk as well, not sure.
I wonder how much time a golem could waste
Its 30 slots so could only fit in TH9+ bases, and costs a ton of DE. That said it would take someone forever, or a large troop dump, to kill one. Problem is, it could also be outright ignored by flying attacks, and it wouldn’t be able to catch hogs effectively.
Upgrade from Tier 5-6 wizard isn’t massive, so TH8s can help out with those. (which happens already, cheers Poly!!)
I defintely dont mind helping out with wiz donations, only reason I dont is I was told not too!
But they look cooler… More intimidating.