EVE: Lame newbie excuses

One comment I often see related to EVE is that a new player was never able to find a Corp to join, and so only played the game for X amount of time and quit because he got bored, or because he could never figure out some of the games controls/concepts and quit in frustration. Unless you loaded up the game with the intention to hate it, what excuse do people have for not joining EVE University?

One can argue that EVE-U is not for everyone, and I would agree. But joining it, trying it, and finding it’s not to your liking is much further down the road than simply quitting the game because you never found a Corp. Same goes for the whole “I never figured it out” aspect; EVE-U is designed exactly for that, and does a pretty remarkable job in teaching you everything you might want to know about the game. And EVE-U is not some newly initiated project that might go poof tomorrow; it’s been around longer than most MMOs, and has refined what it does down to a science. The fact that you will be a joining a huge, always active, very helpful Corp in EVE is basically a best case scenario, right? If you quit the game after experiencing that, clearly it was not the game for you (and it’s not for many), but again that’s very different than the issues mentioned above.

This also somewhat relates to the topic of community perception that is going around EVE blogs. While EVE certainly has its fair share of villains, and their stories always draw lots of attention, it’s tough to argue the community as a whole is all bad when you have something like EVE-U around. How many MMO communities have something similar, and if they do, how does that establishment stack up against what EVE-U offers?

To me the perception issue boils down to two separate factors. One factor is outside reporting; if you base your assumption only on the media-reported ‘highlights’ of EVE (mega scams, null-sec wars), you might be tricked into believe that the entire game is only about that, and that everyone playing is either scamming right now, or planning to scam as soon as possible.

The other factor is EVE bittervets reporting on only what they see immediately around them. If they are in a ‘hardcore’ PvP Corp that has refined its combat doctrine over the years, and considers combat efficiency ‘srsbsns’, of course they won’t be real friendly to new players or show tolerance for them. And if that Corp only fights and really interacts with others like them, it’s easy to believe that what you see around you is what happens in all of New Eden.

But both factors show only a limited view of EVE as a whole. If it’s a direction that interests you, either the scamming or the ‘hardcore’ PvP, EVE offers that. But it also offers a lot more. EVE-U is an example, as are the countless high-sec, low-sec, or WH Corps. If the activity is at all possible in EVE, there is a Corp that is doing it, and more often than not, they will be willing to accept someone who is committed to that playstyle.

You might still get ganked/scammed/killed IRL while doing it, but then that’s why EVE is so great.

77 Responses to EVE: Lame newbie excuses

  1. Murther says:

    I’m not sure it is a lame excuse. It is possible to play eve and never come across EVE-U.

    Similarly, it’s actually quite hard to find the good hi-sec/low-sec/WH corps in amongst the chaff, and apart from anything else as a new player you won’t know how to separate out the two.

    • Devore says:

      It is a frequent topic in Help and Rookie Help channels. You’d have to purposely avoid new player tools.

      • Murther says:

        Yes, and usually followed by a recruitment scam of some kind.

        • SynCaine says:

          You can’t scam in the new player chat channel.

        • Murther says:

          It’s not done directly. However just go in there with a newly rolled alt, ask questions and see how long it is before someone convo’s you.

        • Anonymous says:

          Ya because scammers are super focused on ripping off someone with under a million ISK to their name…

          Most scams in Eve, CAN’T target new players due to the size of the contract orders or the nature of the mission scam.

        • Murther says:

          This is eve, not every scam has isk as it’s end goal.

        • SynCaine says:

          Yea totally better to not play at all than take the chance that someone might scam you. Ooh nooz.

          Also I still fail to see how your tinfoil hat applies to EVE-U or RvB?

      • Murther says:

        Let’s follow up, there are plenty of corps that are unrepresented in either channel.

        So initiatives like CCP advertising RvB and Eve University on the starting banner are actually very good things, if not done often enough. Both corps have lively forums where people can find their future path, and a number of corps actively recruiting via these forums.

        If I come into the game and want to find a smallish decent corp that would welcome a new player, it would be a lot harder.

        • SynCaine says:

          “If I come into the game and want to find a smallish decent corp that would welcome a new player, it would be a lot harder.”

          And?

          If you are looking for something that specific, expect to put more effort into finding it. Pretty much applies to any MMO.

        • Cyndre says:

          I found precisely that and was in the corp BEFORE I created an Eve account.

          I must be super-pro.

        • Murther says:

          That’s not particularly specific, that’s just “corporation that isn’t large 0.0 alliance”.

          .. and sure, I get all sorts of recruitment requests, most from corps you wouldn’t consider.

          Regarding finding E-UNI which someone down the thread brought up; for some time the corp. search tool has been broken, it rates exact matches against the search terms more highly than matches which are a superset of your search term – so just clicking on ‘New Player Friendly’ throws up a bunch of very tiny corporations who just happen to only have that one attribute ticked. That’s the sort of improvement that CCP could make.

          and Cyndre – I guess you found a community outside the game containing a couple of people who wanted to play eve, that’s not the case for everyone.

    • spinks says:

      I think EVE-U was actually not taking new players back when I played the trial, can’t remember exactly why, something about a wardec I think.

      The message on their website was along the lines of ‘wait a few months until we re-open recruiting’ and I knew at that point that I was not really the EVE player type.

      • North says:

        During wardec EUNI recruits as usual. But people have to understand that their future corp is at war, so some restrictions within will be apllied. Not everyone agree to them.

  2. Aidan P. says:

    The real secret of Eve is that you must dive into the community – the blogging/fansites and/or the player community in the game (Chat channels). Once you get into the community, it quickly becomes clear that there is a wealth of support, information, and guidance out there. The people that make the complaint Syncaine is referring – likely never made that effort to reach out.

    And, as we all know, n00b solo players are rarely amused in Eve.

    Also, I have always been one that dives into all the info I can find when I start playing a game; especially games rich in lore like Eve. It baffles me that some jump into a game, without attempting to learn at least the basic lay of the land first – particularly when joining a long-standing, player-driven MMO.

    • SynCaine says:

      Diving into the community should be as common as connecting to the server itself. The fact that it’s not is a reflection of the direction the genre has gone in recent years.

      • KSC says:

        If it should be that common, then it needs to be supported better in-game. It has always been a small minority of players that participate in the forums and community sites of online games. In gaming ‘antiquity’ you had much smaller playerbases, so players were far more likely to be abreast with the recent goings-on of the world.

        • Rammstein says:

          Since EVE is trying to be a hardcore sandbox, and not SpaceVille, your point about large and small playerbases is unpersuasive.

        • SynCaine says:

          “If it should be that common, then it needs to be supported better in-game.”

          Why do people expect the devs to hold their hand at all times? You don’t need in-game tools to find people. TALK TO PEOPLE. Get involved. People make it seem like its this impossible club that takes months of effort to get into. Just a little bit of initiative goes a long way, yet even that is asking too much from some people apparently.

        • spinks says:

          You don’t think EVE’s terrible chat UI could stand some improvement?

        • Rammstein says:

          The terrible chat UI with standard included chat logging, easy linking with internet linking supported and accompanied by an ingame browser, and ability to make a huge character bio instantly available through a right click to anyone viewing your public comments? That terrible chat UI?

          Wow’s chat UI is pretty simple and intuitive. I’ve played a ton of MMOs whose chat UI was both less featured than WoW’s, and much more clunky to use. EVE’s chat UI is a bit more complicated than the average MMO, but also gives more features and options than the average. What’s your justification for calling it “terrible”?

        • spinks says:

          It’s awhile since I played it but I seem to remember the screen being full of windows of tiny text, and the chat scrolliing up far too quickly to be read. It was annoying enough that I turned it off. It’s not about the browser functions, more about it fails at the most basic level. If they’d gone for a more IRC interface I think it would have worked better. Part of the problem is that on the single server you are likely to have busier chat channels, but I don’t think CCP really saw that as a problem to be solved … and I do :)

          I can’t think offhand why I’d ever want to read someone’s character bio via chat but presumably some people would.

        • KSC says:

          My point is that not much has changed when it comes to MMO communities in this regard. If there is some desired behavior the devs aren’t getting out of the players, then the obvious way to affect that is in-game. To expect players (prospective ones especially) to change apropos of nothing is silly.

  3. Caramael says:

    So how *does* a new player find a corp or some people to play with ingame? Nobody ever talks in local, NPC corp chat makes your eyes bleed, in hisec everyone is inside their own little piece of deadspace, when I fly into low-sec or null I get blown up and wake up inside a cloning facility. Seriously, how does one actually meet people inside EVE and, you know, decide to do stuff together?
    I’ve been playing the game for a couple of months, and the only social interaction I got until now is, ironically, talking with Gevlon and other people in the goblinworks channel.
    Joining some of the corps in the ingame recruitment didn’t help either, the only thing I got was lolling idiots talking about boobs and pwning.

    • Devore says:

      The in game Recruitment channel is a joke. People should stop recommending it,as it does way more to scare people away than help them. The NPC corp is hit and miss. Mine appears to be full of Russian bots, so no one talks ever. I would suggest making a well-thought out post in the recruitment forum instead.

      There is the Help channel, where friendly folks hang out, and sometimes idiots drop by. There is the above mentioned Even University, where you will run into hundreds of new and experienced players alike, an organization that hosts frequent seminars, operations, tutorials, and have one of the more impressive documentation repositories on their Wiki.

    • SynCaine says:

      How can you ask how to find a Corp when the entire post is about EVE-U being a good Corp to join when you can’t find a Corp to join…

      • Caramael says:

        Because suggesting to join the uni is not really an answer to the question on how to find a nice corp to play with?

        • SynCaine says:

          Please tell me how you intend to search for a friendly new player corp in EVE and not find EVE-U. Please.

        • Caramael says:

          I’ve been in the uni, for 2 months.

        • Xyloxan says:

          What’s wrong with joining the SynCaine’s corp? The CEO seems to be a nice guy….

        • SynCaine says:

          Caramael: And in those two months, you have not come across another Corp that might be a fit for you should you want to move on from EVE-U?

          Xyloxan: We are actually closed for recruitment right now :)

        • Caramael says:

          Nope, but I’m probably not looking enough or in the wrong places. Which is why I tried asking here.

        • SynCaine says:

          Not being a dick, but I find that almost impossible. In my time since I’ve been back in EVE, I’ve come into contact with at least 10 different Corps, of different natures, who have all tried to recruit me or my Corp into some alliance. Like I literally don’t know how you play this game and NOT run across someone legit trying to recruit you, unless you just solo mine/mission and never type a single word (and even then if you don’t get an offer I’d be amazed).

        • North says:

          Caramael: EUNI forum has a separate board called Work Fair. A lot of different corps including industry, WH, pirates and sov 0.0 post their with the recruitment adverts. It is easy to find. You just have to “want” to find it.

        • Caramael says:

          Thanks for the suggestion North.
          However, my question was how one is supposed to find people to play with *in-game*. Apparently one has to go outside the game, posting replies on blogs such as Syncaine’s, or forums (eew), because inside EVE there’s no way to actually meet people. There are no things such as “LFG to kill big ship here”, or “/wave /salute while passing by”, or “gosh looks like that player is in serious trouble, let me ‘throw a heal’ and help him out”, etc. which could result in a nice chat and someone to add to your friend list.
          Correct me if I’m wrong please.

        • kalex716 says:

          Here’s my recommendation. Pay attention to who you buy stuff from. Who you see docking and un docking, start to pay attentnion to the corps these people are in. Are you hanging out in a major mission running hub? If so, i bet theirs some mission running corps who station there.

          Check the station to see what corps have offices. Look at their interests, do they line up with your own.

          Who is in the belts mining, are they just bots are actual people? Try and talk to them.

          If you hang out in a place for a while, you’ll start to see trends of who is using that space, and from there, what corps are likely leveraging it.

          are they corps that do the things you want to do? If so, hit them up. If not, maybe you should organize a move some place else that may be more attractive to the things you want to do.

          Set goals for yourself, and keep an eye out for people who might have similar interests.

          If you “play” in EVE, this becomes more natural. Does thinking this way have its own barriers of entry? Probably, but if this kind of stuff doesn’t appeal to your style of socially engaging with people, EVE probably isn’t going to be for you.

  4. thade says:

    I would like to echo and emphasize this entire post for its accuracy. EVE Uni is a remarkable organization; a purely altrustic “leveling guild” (pardon the term). That such an organization can endure speaks volumes about both the people involved and the game it exists in. I fully endorse support and encourage new players to check it out.

    I didn’t like EVE, but it wasn’t due to the community. E-UNI has a really good one. They’ll help you get your bearings and get your feet wet.

  5. gevlon says:

    Rare case that I agree fully. The griefers and “let’s kill people just for fun” is maybe visible but not the majority. I encountered much more decent people in EVE than griefers or scammers.

    For example I need high faction standings for trading. I proc storyline missions by chain-running L3 or L4 distributions. Sometimes the storyline is security. Then I hire a stranger to help them. Not ONCE was I scammed.

  6. Cyndre says:

    The best part about these comments, is how people are complaining on the blog of an Eve Corp CEO, who was publically recruiting for a small, mature, closeknit, new player friendly corp for the past 6 months… that they don’t know where to find a corp.

    You can’t make this stuff up.

    • Caramael says:

      Last time I checked there was a post stating they’re not recruiting.

      • Caramael says:

        Nevermind, stupid reply, please delete ;)

        • Aidan P. says:

          Carameal,

          If you really are looking for a good corp, contact me in game. I recruit for a corp that likes newer players.

          Gorram Smeg is the name

    • Rammstein says:

      Cyndre, it seems that you have forgotten that Syn was publicly declared to be chaotic evil by the official internet morality board, T.O.B.O.L.D. (The Official Board Of Lunatic Declarations)

      Perhaps these people are looking for a lawful good corp that rescues princesses and slays dragons. (Damsel in Distress missions were completed 2,806 times yesterday.–From CCP_Diagoras’s tweet on April 15, 2012). Syn’s in a wormhole , which I believe is Icelandic for ‘evil wizard’s lair’.

  7. Murther says:

    “Yea totally better to not play at all than take the chance that someone might scam you. Ooh nooz.”

    Heh. No, it’s just that Rookie Help and Recruitment are largely information free and are thus useless for purpose so pointing someone to them is a bit silly.

    “Also I still fail to see how your tinfoil hat applies to EVE-U or RvB?”

    It doesn’t. I think these are excellent places to start and CCP should promote both – including fixing their broken corporation search tool (for a long time the tool only ever showed exact matches).

    • Devore says:

      I guess an RvB banner featured on the game login screen for several weeks doesn’t count? CCP is not in the business of promoting individual corps, for obvious reasons, but E-Uni and RvB are frequently mentioned by other players and ISDs when new people wonder what to do next. How many other MMOs have ISDs?

      My personal experience has been that the EVE community is friendly, helpful, and welcomes new players (who are desperately wanted in many corps). Sure there are some pricks and elitists too, but name one game which does not have any. I’ve had money given to me, even when I did not ask for it and was not expecting it. I’ve had people volunteer to help out with difficult missions, people who did not try to scam me, or steal from me, or warp me to the middle of nowhere to gank me. I’m an anti-social carebear, and even I cannot imagine how one can play the game for weeks, and not run into several other players they’ve interacted with, run across several corps that look interesting, or been approached by several recruiters. Do you have to log in, auto-decline convos, not type into any chat windows, mine in a belt for several hours and log out?

      EVE certainly allows you to play by yourself for years. There are no group quests. No dungeons. This means no forced social interaction, thus effort is required to initiate some. Do you just log in and expect your contact list to be magically populated? Like many things in EVE, there are parallels to real life here. When you move to a new city where you don’t know anyone, you have to put forth the effort to meet people and make friends. If you do nothing, and exist alone, do you then complain about how unfriendly the city is?

  8. bhagpuss says:

    “The other factor is EVE bittervets reporting on only what they see immediately around them. If they are in a ‘hardcore’ PvP Corp that has refined its combat doctrine over the years, and considers combat efficiency ‘srsbsns’, of course they won’t be real friendly to new players or show tolerance for them. And if that Corp only fights and really interacts with others like them, it’s easy to believe that what you see around you is what happens in all of New Eden.”

    This pretty much applies to every MMO I’ve played. People operate in their own bubbles. Whatever their guild does is what everyone in the game must be doing, or aspiring to do. Whatever they think is ruining the game for them must be ruining the game for everyone else.

    It’s frustrating.

  9. thade says:

    I got a good amount of help in the Rookie Help channel during my start-up, and I saw mods lay the hammer down pretty fast on scammers and spammers. Not a perfect system but not a broken one by any means.

    Not to mention that you need not join E-UNI to receive some help; their public channel is open to all and you can get some reasonable advice in there too.

    It’s true that E-UNI doesn’t do recruiting while they are at war, and the queue to get in can take a week…but it’s well worth the wait, and – really – the true merit of any EVE player can be measured in that person’s patience. A week is nothing in that game; it’s all about the long view. And tense dog fights.

    • North says:

      Nowadays it’s much easier to join EUNI. Usually you don’t have to wait much since a lot of checks are automated now.

      Also, you can join EUNI during war. The main possible issue is that EUNI have a strict policies for it’s members during war, mostly to protect those members. Not all people want to follow them – that’s why they are suggested to join after the war will finish.

      • thade says:

        Depends on when you app. I joined it in February and I sat in that queue for over a week; they were just out of war-time and were re-admitting members who stepped out to “draft dodge” as it were (evade the entire war-time lock-down that comes with the corp). Still, the queue system is impressive and does streamline it a bit.

  10. Cyndre says:

    Even though INQ-E closed recruitment, we have a very friendly, active public channel that all are welcome in, to ask questions, make contacts and friends and just hang out with other like-minded Eve players.

    “INQ-E Public”

    Feel free to stop by.

    • Devore says:

      Not just INQ-E but most major corporations, including E-Uni, have public channels anyone can join to hang out, chat, ask for help, find a good corp. Pull up the corp information, if it’s not listed there ask their diplo(mat), an officer, or founder. I think a lot of problems new players are having as shown in the comments here can be solved by talking to people.

      • Cyndre says:

        **GASP** Talk to people in an MMO… what is this barbaric notion? Surely the developers shouls add some new button to do it for me…

  11. Chris K. says:

    The concerns posted in these comments are valid. I have a feeling you’re looking at things from a somewhat skewed perspective, since you run a fairly popular blog and have the out-of-game means to find others to join you. Not everyone has “Hardcore casual” , “Kill Ten Rats” or “Greedy Goblin” to communicate on such a broad audience. Cyndre himself has mentioned in his blog that a lot of people have approached him lately interested in joining the game in one of his more recent KTR posts, where he kinda set things straight that EVE is not a casual thing. Would INQ-E be as successful if you didn’t report on your progress and draw some attention to yourself? Maybe, maybe not.

    On topic: Eve-U is a transitional corp, that helps you get your bearing. As I’m told (I haven’t actually applied) it also has a somewhat more complex application process than what most people are used to. I know someone who would not shy away from writing walls of text in various guild apps (in other MMOs) but when I asked him about Eve-Uni he replied that “filling out a tax return sheet is remarkably easier”. He was probably exaggerating, but then again for the average person the whole notion of the application is a completely foreign affair – “what is this, a job? ” is the reaction I come across most of the time.

    And then there’s the forums, with pages upon pages of recruitment posts, “bumps” and marketing drivel, of nearly desolate corps that try desperately to suck new people in. There are gems in there, for sure, but a new player has barely the means to filter all that crap, ends up in a 5-man corp (in the wrong timezone) and is out soloing again.

    Add to that the fact that actually finding a group of people you just “click” with is challenging by itself (whatever the game/activity is), and suddenly EVE with its group/corp oriented focus becomes a lot more harsh, newbie or not.

    I know people that have quit due to that feeling of isolation, so it definitely isn’t a lame newbie excuse.

    • Rammstein says:

      Your post, with corp changed to guild, applies reasonably well to every single MMO I’ve ever played, except for the Eve-Uni paragraph which is a side-note.

      I’m trying to come up with an alternate explanation for this other than the default one, which is that EVE wasn’t a themepark wow-clone, so you hated it–but are unable to clearly communicate this simple fact and therefore criticize EVE in meaningless generalities. Nope, can’t think of another.

      • Chris K. says:

        Except that I’m subbed to EVE, so I clearly don’t hate it. So.. yeah…

        And you know what, it does apply to pretty much all MMOs. But in EVE the consequences for not being able to find like-minded individuals with ease punishes you so much more that the other MMOs out there. Because sandbox games are all about communities.

        That was the whole point, which completely skipped over your head apparently.

        • Rammstein says:

          if the whole point was that EVE was a sandbox and that skipped over my head, then me referring to themeparks/sandbox being the real difference here is a magical coincidence ;) Cool, bro.

    • Cyndre says:

      Please don’t misinterpret my posts, and they adjust my meaning to suit your viewpoint.

      My post was “Be careful you don’t try to do what I am doing, because I write that its fun, and then find out you dont like sitting around a lot, getting ganked and blown up a lot and generally suffering.”

      I said neither that finding a corp was difficult, nor that EvE was casual unfriendly.

      Most people stay in High Sec for at least a few months/ years. I stayed less than a few weeks, and I probably get podded more than the average noob.

  12. MysticRain says:

    Re your comment “You might still get ganked/scammed/killed IRL while doing it, but then that’s why EVE is so great.”

    I know you support the Mittani, I don’t want to play a game that can get me “killed IRL”

  13. bonedead says:

    Because joining “Hi I’m a big fuckin newb” corps is embarrassing.

  14. Redder says:

    So if these are not the reasons that the number of EVE subscribers is so small, then what is?

    Comparing EVE subscriber numbers with WoT or WoW or SWTOR or soon GW2 and even perhaps Terra & SW …

    IIRC, WoW said like 75% of players did not get to level 20. I can only imagine the attrition of EVE players.

    There have to be reasons that EVE is just a niche game. If it is not the NPE, then what is the reason?

    • Lyss says:

      WoW or ToR are for People who want to play, Eve is for Gamers.

      • Redder says:

        I think WoT, GW2 and even Terra would say they went after gamers. Although tbh I tend to think of the term as more referring to people who play as consoles/FPS/SC2. My guess is the reason the much newer WoT has ten times the users of EVE is because it is targeted more to gamers – no PvE, easy in, time waiting to kill stuff quite low.

        But getting back to the OP, is EVE’s modest success due to being new/casual play unfriendly?

        That is the conventional wisdom.

        This post says that is not the case but doesn’t offer an alternative theory as to why.

        I take it you are saying that NPE does not matter; the target demographic is small so the subscriber count will be small.

        Re gamers – remember the CCP Marketing exec who said in February that by focusing on the PSN gamers that “EVE could be the biggest game in the world at the end of 2012.”
        3000% growth because of console gamers? /sigh

        • Rammstein says:

          Why do so many more people drive cars to work, when compared to those who luge down an ice track to work?

          The conventional wisdom says that the unpopularity of luging is due to the clunky and unfriendly “new luge experience”.

          This post says that is not the case, but doesn’t offer an alternative theory as to why.

          I take it you are saying that NLE doesn’t matter; that people don’t luge to work because they are afraid they won’t look good in tight spandex.

        • Lyss says:

          Gamers are poeple who have gaming as a Hobby and are willing to invest the effort which is demanded from every “serious” hobby.
          Eve Caters to them, or to the part of them which like ships in space. Theres nothing newbie unfriendly with it, by your logic every newby is a lazy retard.

          A newbie is someone who is new to something, a casual player is someone who has less time compared to a not so casual player. None of theese two labels says anything about the level of commitment theese players are having for their hobby.
          Your argumentation actually insults newbies and casual players because you say that eve is unfriendly to them which in turn means it has to be more friendly to be mastered by their little brains.

          EVE demands somethng from the playerbase, and in return they get a good experience out of it. Thats a good deal. It just isnt for people whio dont want to play a game and instead want to be purely braindead entertained, nothing wrong with that I would watch rather last boyscout for the 20th time then some fancy french fucking art movie, but dont demand from the game that it caters to you.

          Or it has to give something to new players which are not up for it just to lure higher numbers in, which are not necessarily needed since ccp is doing fine.

          So this game is for gamers, its not unfriendly, its not hardcore, and it doesnt try to kill you.

          And so as syn said most of the comments about eve from people who dont play anymore are excuses just because they “know they are gamers!!” but go back to blizzards minigame collection online if they see theyre just people who play and not gamers.

    • Xyloxan says:

      Redder: As I am sure you well know EVE is a niche game by design. That is, the game designers and producers decided that making a game that they enjoy playing is more important that designing a game that maximizes their financial profit. Of course, it would be trivial to make changes catering specifically to newbies. Or to retards who demand being able to blow up a Titan every time they feel like it during their 20 minutes of daily playing and getting an awesome shiny reward for doing so. EVE is a complex game by design, and consequently the learning slope is fairly steep (but with very satisfying rewards higher on that slope). Very shortly it will be the 9th anniversary of game release, and the game is doing fine. I think this longevity supports the notion that catering to newbies doesn’t have to be a top priority for game designers.

      Just a random observation: The number of people driving a Ferrari is a few orders of magnitude smaller than the number of people driving a Kia. Ergo, Kia must be making really awesome cars compared to Ferrari. No?

    • Shadow says:

      “Don’t measure other men’s corn by your own bushel.”

      Eve: Online – the only MMO with 8 years of consecutive growth.

  15. Sullas says:

    “Ergo, Kia must be making really awesome cars compared to Ferrari. No?”

    Yes, for the purposes of urban commuting, they probably are. But the comparison is incoherent, given that it’s not the relative difficulty of driving a Ferrari that prevents most people from choosing it.

    Anyway, I’m glad we’re done with the ‘EVE is for KILLAHSSS, gtfo’ posturing and back to some acknowledgement of its potential appeal to non-psychopaths.

  16. Serpentine Logic says:

    The main difference between Eve and other MMOs is that Eve has impact. Your losses are non-trivial losses, making your gains matter all the more.

    It’s about as far away from the Halo-style instant-action games as you can get.

  17. Korvus Falek says:

    The Black Rebel Rifter Club is a nice little pirate corp, for those who want to live in the middle of the high sec carebearing stuff and the 0.0 null blobs. Jump into “The Autocannon” channel or down to Heild, where most of us call home.

    Its not too hard to find a corp if you know what you want to be in EVE.

  18. Helena Khan says:

    OK peeps and a tip for newer players, any corp that accepts you off the bat without any kind of interview (voice based) or some time in the public channel getting to know you (and you them) is probably not worth joining,

    It’s more about if you fit with the culture and the aspirations of the corp than anything else. Someone after leet PvP is not going to want to hang with a hardcore mining corp and vice versa.

    Skills are very much secondary and will increase over time in any case. Learning how to apply them is far more important and is something best gleaned from experienced people willing to share their knowledge.

    A corp willing to point you in the right direction as far as external tools (dotlan, evemon, eve agents etc) and skill planning will also be of huge help in speeding up the time it takes you to start acheiving want you want in game as well.

  19. roqoco says:

    Another lame newbie excuse:

    Played an Eve demo like ages ago: Was fine with all the PvP mechanics etc. and no doubt could get to grips with the somewhat unintuitive skills and steep learning curve – not exactly rocket science (!?) for a programmer (although skills that update when you’re not there is a bit too reminiscent of gardening :(). What puts me off games like this is the same thing that (mostly) puts me off WoW raiding – to get the most out of them you have to commit to play according to some sort of fixed schedule. I reckon that’s why games like Eve will always be niche, its also why I think the buy to play model (like GW) is the best model for mainstream MMOs.

  20. The Tanker says:

    EvE is a game but, more than that its a way to learn about real life issues and events focused around a both the EvE community and the real world make no mistake this game is more than just challenging it requires a thought process and patients to just survive: Some examples might include the ART of SCAMMING : Building and keeping an Empire: Building items and learning there usage, how to make the most of what you make, Mining and its effects: Pirate life and what it would have been like: Taking from the rich for your self :) . EvE combines more aspects of all other MMO bar none. If you think you have what it takes to build and keep something try it give it a month it takes that long to get the jest of EvE. Fly dangerously or don’t fly at all, with great risks come great profits.

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