Better PvP experience: WAR’s RvR near release, or GW2’s WvW?
Instinctively I wanted to say GW2, because lulz WAR, but I spent a hell of a lot more time in WAR’s RvR than I did in GW2’s WvW. The same goes for the guilds I played with. That’s hard to ignore.
Then it comes down to which is more flawed. I think GW2 gets more of the little things right, like siege equipment and zone layout, but WAR gets more of the big picture stuff right, like PvP actually going somewhere, and you actually going someplace with it. I’d say which has the better combat system is a tossup. GW2 has better skill balance, but has the silly invuln-dodge mechanic and basically no itemization (far too easy to get BiS everything just by visiting the AH), while WAR had massive CC issues but felt like you could do more with a well-balanced group, and not all skills in that game blended into one giant blah of AoE.
I bring this up because Keen mentioned the two in his post about TESO, where he too makes the assumption that GW2 WvW was better than WAR’s RvR, and I’m just not sure it’s that cut and dry.
Either way, both models ultimately pale in comparison to MMOs that get/got PvP right (EVE/DF/DAoC/SB/AC-DT/UO), and to Keen’s point, I don’t expect TESO to rise much higher (if at all) above that lowly set bar of GW2/WAR ‘PvP’. :queue “lowered expectations” theme song:
Hardcore Casual 
RvR because at least they took the time to make the zones look different.
Gameplay wise, WAR was shit to me. The overworld PvP was usually sucked dry because half the pop was too busy fapping it in instances, and the amount of CC in the game was beyond insane.
At least in GW2 I was in control of my character almost all of the time instead of being knocked up, knocked down, knocked back, stun, snared, rooted, silenced, disarmed, and pulled forward (through walls) into lava.
The different zone design was all WAR had going for it. It was a merry-go-round where players avoided each other just to flip-flop control points and farm the rewards. GW2 wins by a landslide.
The flaws of WAR are manifest, and not the least of them was the inclusion of WoW battleground-like scenarios that siphoned so much of the population out of the main world.
Over two months of pretty solid playing (and another month of tapering off) our group was in one great battle at Mandred’s Hold. But that battle probably extended our stay for another month in the hope that we could do something like that again.
If they could have focused people on that… well, things might have gone better in the long run.
But from what I have read, GW2 has the opposite issue, where WvW is crowded. So you have to factor in the quantity of experiences versus the quality I suppose. Is much less of a good thing good enough? Does more diminish the experience at all?
How it is designed is one thing… on paper. How they play, GW2 wins, yeah, by a landslide. In WAR I fought doors. In GW2, I am fighting players just as much if not more than NPCs/doors.
I wish there was some long term progression in WvW, especially to get perhaps free WvW commander status or something… but I figure since they have a team dedicated to the game type we will see improvements.
all i remember from GW2 is just inching back and forth in the zerg placing aoe templates on the ground as close as i could to the enemy line.
That or running back from the odd respawn when you were the last one to sense the “recoil” when your line starts to inch backwards.
Thought the RvR maps were better in WAR. GW2 has a way of constantly making you run through narrow gaps. Intentional I am sure to keep you running into other players. But in every other way GW2 is superior.
Why are you comparing a 2 faction game like WAR with a 3 faction (not really faction, but it works as an example in WvWvW) game when DAoC was clearly better than WAR, had 3 factions, and was where the idea of RvR came from?
Hell, Aion would have been a better choice for comparison than that watered-down embarrassment EA approved.
Because DAoC vs GW2 is not much of a debate.
Warhammer pvp is far better then GW2 WvWvW
1) GW2 zones are far far far too big copy & pastes. You spend 80% of your time running from a spawn point, with a zerg or doing pve in the warzones – occasionaly you run into opposing team and if you die it takes 1000 years to get back to your group
2) In gw2 you cannot get into Keeps unless you break down the door.
3) In gw2 WvW is all about aoe range, tanks are useless & certain classes are impossible to kill
4) If you die on the ground outside a keep in the middle of a zerg, well you gonnah have to respawn and un for ten minutes cos nobody can res you in GW2
5) Battles are too short zerg runovers..In warhammer I have managed to fight one guy for 30 minutes before we bowed & gave up
6) Seige is a joke, the range is too far & it takes too long to build unlike the instant deployment mechanic of warhammer.
7) Warhammer has collision detection which allows players to control choke points and defeat much larger armies…think 300 Movie
8) Tanks in warhammer online pvp are the best pvp tanks in any mmorpg due to their ally defensive buffs (unique to WAR)
9) GW2 pvp is currently more laggy then warhammer online
10)GW2 battlegrounds are a copy & paste of warhammer scenarios…just without the character.
11) Dodging is rediculous, allow players to fight on their backs instead of dying is rediculous …you beat someone and then someone else gangs you & you can’t get your kill…Kills are not shared iether
12) There are far too many buffs & armor sets that you can purchase in GW2 for WvW…If you like to grind and craft you are imortal in this game. In warhammer there are only a few armor sets and the way that warhammer raises your rank currently encourages more survivability then GW2 and their so called raising your rank to lv 80 so that you can spend 3 months grinding shit loads of gear that others don’t have
13) Because there are no fixed classes, you do not know what you are fighting, instead, you kinda have an idea…this simply does not work.
To fight Troll may let the internet be a better place :
A lot of your dissatisfaction with GW2 come from that you do not know enough the WvW in GW2, and i just does not understand some others.
1) A lot of good player think that GW2 WvW maps are too small : in fact, you learn to use speed buff, and to die less often.
2) ??? What is the point of a fort, if enemies can enter without breaking the doors ? You can also break the wall.
3) In trinity games, in Multi, Tanks are useless : why fight the invincible guy that does nothing more than the dangerous DPS or support ?
4) Everybody can rez everyone in GW2. But yes it is hard to do if you are in the mass of enemy. You have to learn not to die in the enemy group.
5) ??? You want a game where battle are so long that people are bored ?
6) If everyone has the ressources, it takes some seconds to build a siege weapon.Shorter is instant ! Even in Team Fortress 2, a FPS, building sentry takes some times.
7) True !
8) Maybe, I do not know Warhammer enough
9) Maybe, I have experienced no lags at all, neither my friends, and i have not seen complaints in MMO blogs about it. But it is possible that you experiment more lags in GW2 than in Warhammer
10) Ah ? maybe
11) You dislikes dodge because combat take too long. seems Contrary to your point 5. I find dodge technic an interesting twist, and you can only dodge twice. I believed that kills are shared, but the killed information is not very simple to see.
12) As a lvl 20, I succeed to kill lvl 80 with far better armor than me. I received help from fellow guildies, but it does seem fair to me.
13) Each profession has colors that make it very simple to see which proffessions are your enemies during a fight. I find interesting to not know before the fight if the Light armor you will fight is a Elem or Necro, but I understand that someone can dislikes it.
Most of what you have just said just made my point clearer…Warhammer online has a RVR focus, GW2 has no focus..For the last 3 years the only patches that have come out is to improve the pvp…Think about that…It is a pvp game with some pve…Guild wars tries to do too much & has no focus…Also mixing pve & pvp in WvW is poor game design…And I rofl at you sir. GW2 maps are far too big even with the speed boosters & gangking lv 80 , well there is nothing fair about that. In warhammer I run with a 6 man group & roflstomp entire warbands, that you will never get in GW2…Have you ever heard the saying pvlayer vs door…Well in GW2 that is the case, you go to gate hit door while enimy bombs you…And yes everyone can res, which is completely idiotic, but you cannot cast a res…you have to use banners or run and touch the person for 1000 hours…Again if you die in zerg thats the end…Lets not to mention that the graphics cater for women, children & homosexuals..Even the lore & voice overs are far too lame …the zones , even the dark ones are far too pretty…I like the dirty grit of warhammer lore, zones & graphics. Good luck with GW2, I am going to play a true pvp game…Btw the creaters of WvW are mythic entertainment, they used it first in DAOC…Then in warhammer…I think they know a little something about ballanced large scale faction based pvp…Wouldn’t you think? The reaons why warhammer has not got a large opulation is because it has a pvp niche focus…That does not make is a bad game…This just means that if you are not good at pvp you will hate it…Most people prefer pve…Thats why GW2 has pve in war zones…yuk
“Lets not to mention that the graphics cater for women, children & homosexuals..Even the lore & voice overs are far too lame …” => Not acceptable to insult women and homosexuals. I am happy you no longer play GW2.
All I remember from WAR PvP is skills flat-out not working when pressed, knockbacks into lava and being thrown by white lions. Goddamn white lions. I quit around the end of tier 3.
So as much as I was disappointed with WvW and GW2’s PvP in general feeling nothing like GW1, I gotta say that WAR sucked way more.
Oh that reminds me…ANOTHER REDICULOUS THING ABOUT GW2 in warhammer, you can use a crowd control effect on a toon once, then he is imune for 3 minutes or so….In GW2 you getpumped with crowd control, there is no way to escape a zerg or even a small group of player if you are on your own… But most importantly in GW2 there are only a small handfull of battlegrounds compared to the warhammer 25…There is only 1 WvW zone compared to the warhammer 30+…There is no objective to WvW unlike warhammer unlocking the capital city ziege. And most importantly in warhammer you have the option of automaticaly teleporting to the nearest hot spot…In GW2 you gotta run for 10 minutes & hope you don’t get farmed by those that are feeding the supply chain. Also GW2 has no mods, you are forced to use their nonsense UI…you can’t even reorder the skills.
In GW2 there are ways to fight Crowd Control skills, but it is not automatic. Stability is your king for that. Dodge can also help.
I would love more maps in WvW !
Of course there are objectives in WvW : the keep are the only things that bring points and victory. Mindless slaughter does not bring anything to your server.
I love GW2 UI. The benefit of not being able to reorder the 10 skills is that you learn more easily the game. It is also easier to learn a new profession.
Oh wait one more thing…Holy trinity = teamwork…There is no Holy trinity in GW2 = solo running in large group…Fail
I definitely enjoyed WAR far more. Tanks that matter and collision detection allowing for a vastly greater strategic component to placement makes all the difference. Oh, and actually being able to do it. LoL-queues in GW2 killed the game for me in less than a month.
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