Accessible to you means trivial to me, and elitist to him.

It seems Tobold was having a rough day Friday. Aside from missing the true point of my post, a few days later Tobold describes a similar situation, only from the ‘raid leech’ perspective rather than an officer’s. As seen here, it seems even his ‘casual’ guild would like to make progress in mini-Naxx, and a few people quit to find more likeminded gamers. (elitists of course, dirty dirty elitists) Not wanting the guild to implode, changes were made by the officers the guild, and people were asked to, you know… come prepared for a raid. How elitist indeed… Not wanting to feel left out of the club, Tobold alters his plans for the game, spends some grind tokens, and gears up just enough to not be excluded. Now if only those ‘raids’ were a bit more ‘accessible’, casual players like Tobold would be able to play how they want, and still see top content. Maybe the next expansion…

The irony of all this is rather thick. First, Tobold plays the one class most raid guilds will tolerate above all else, a priest. Had Tobold leveled his warrior or DK to 80, you can bet those raid spots would be tough to come by and even WotLK raiding would not be so ‘accessible’ to Tobold, but almost all guilds put up with priests. Supply/demand and all that, anyone who has ever raided knows the situation. Yet it seems even his priest was pushing the lowest levels of acceptible contribution, so something had to be done. Luckily WoW has plenty of welfare epics on hand, so rather than having to gear up by playing the game, Tobold was able to spend some of that ‘hard earned’ gold and buy some. How ‘accessible’, and as long as the guild does not ‘rush’ to 25 man Naxx, everything is peachy.

The next amusing bit is the quote from his guild.

A non-defense capped tank, a healer who goes oom after 2 minutes or a DPS who misses half of his attacks are totally useless in a raid and will only cause hard feelings to the team. Why is he/she even in raid ? Why doesn’t the raidleader ask him to leave ? Why isn’t he replaced yet?

Anyone care to guess what that quote looks like in officer chat, or what was going on in officer chat when the bluebie priest was OOM? Or how the members who quit felt about those who showed up for raids unprepared? Someone should put up a mock quote of officers chat…

What Tobold fails to realize from my previous post is that officers don’t hate the ‘serfs’ of a guild. If we did, we would quit and find another guild, happily being a ‘show up’ member and just roll along. The ‘joys’ of running a DKP mod and organizing raiding for everyone are greatly overstated. Officers do what they do because they want the guild to succeed, and in order to do that, you have to stick to the core of your guild. Regardless of how casual or hardcore your guild is, it has its core, and it has its outlying members. Some will want to raid 24/7; some will happily show up to farm whatever content you have finished. It’s the job of the guild leader and officers to make sure the guild is serving its core, and if that means letting some members go, either the ones who are too aggressive, or the ones who are too casual, that’s what you do. Fail to do that, and soon either the core changes, or the guild collapses overall.

The definition of casual is anyone who plays the same amount of time or less than you, and anyone who plays more is hardcore. Even at 40 hours a week, there will be those that are ‘hardcore’ and play 60, and the ‘casuals’ who play 20. Of course if you happen to play 10, that ‘casual’ playing 20 has no life and is way too hardcore. Likewise, accessible just means ‘you play enough to do it’. 5 man instances are wasted content for someone who plays 40 hours, but they are great and ‘accessible’ for someone who plays 10. Likewise, high-end raiding is ‘accessible’ for someone who plays 40, but is considered ‘elitist’ content for someone playing 20. Ultimately it comes down to the design of the game to determine how ‘accessible’ everything should be. If you found pre-WotLK raiding accessible, it’s very likely the current content is not, because of how trivial it is for you. Raiding is about challenging your guild, and without challenge raiding guilds soon find little meaning in the game. The challenge is the enjoyment, and without it, soon it becomes difficult to find reason to log in. If the content of pre-WotLK was too ‘elitist’ for you, WotLK might be just right, and you are now in that sweet spot of challenge/reward. If WotLK is still too demanding, you still view anyone raiding as being elitist, and probably wish Naxx had a 5 man version, so it can be more ‘accessible’ to you.

My current hate for WoW comes from that design change, among others. WoW pre-WotLK served a certain style of raider, and had been for years. With WotLK, that bar was lowered, and very quickly we learned that those participating at the previous level were SOL. One shotting raid bosses is not raiding after all. Those below that level are happy, they have more content, but those above just dropped $45 for the challenge equivalent of 5 mans, and that’s not what WoW was built on.

The constant pursuit of the ultra casual by Blizzard makes financial sense, as long as those ultra casuals remain interested, but it’s never a good idea to piss on your core user base in order to chase after greener pastures. Blizzard gained its reputation, the same reputation that catapulted WoW into the pop hit it is now, by catering to their core and remaining loyal, be it free Diablo 2 patches years after release, or continued mod support for Warcraft 3. At what point do you make your game so ‘accessible’ it no longer supports the core that made you who you are today? At what point do you become that successful indie band that went pop, only to see pop culture reject you after one hit single?

About SynCaine

Former hardcore raider turned casual gamer.
This entry was posted in MMO design, Rant, World of Warcraft. Bookmark the permalink.

35 Responses to Accessible to you means trivial to me, and elitist to him.

  1. Mordiceius says:

    What would you call this “core user base” that Blizzard is pissing on by making an entry level raid easy? It seems like the vocal minority that cries about this are a VERY small minority and I would even venture to guess that less than 1% of players feel like they’re getting pissed on by the easy entry level raid. Less than 1% really doesn’t sound like “core user base” to me.

  2. syncaine says:

    It’s not an entry level raid if it’s the top end raid, for one. And with Blizzards rate of adding content, calling it entry level because at some point down the line something else is coming is a bit off.

    And how can that base be 1% when you had people bitching before WotLK about the content? When pug groups are clearing naxx a couple of months after release, and we already have people making a joke of the content by two-manning bosses, how small can that base be? I’m not saying it’s the majority, but it’s not exactly 1% either.

    The ultra casual heard about this fancy MMO thing because the bleeding edge was raving about it, just like with anything else. Early adopters might be a niche, but if that niche cries foul, the casuals won’t bother either.

  3. Mikejl says:

    For me all WoW is good for right now is ten levels of adventure. Then I do the obligatory “I win!” and un-subscribe.
    I find ignoring any raiding makes the game very enjoyably.

  4. Hudson says:

    According to the figures released by Total Biscuit in the latest Blue PLZ podcast (yes listen if you want to gain some knowledge I know TB can be scary) 20% of the community has cleared Nax. One month in. That is a huge increase in raiders for this expansion. That is something like 1.4 million raiders hitting the content. I don’t know how I feel about this honestly. Not sure if it is good or bad. I just wonder what happens at the end when everyone catches up.

  5. syncaine says:

    Yea the exact number of who has cleared what will never be known, but you can’t argue that the current raid content is being cleared at a staggering rate compared to vanilla WoW and TBC.

    What’s more important is whether you believe players will leave once they have completed all of the highest content, or whether they will happily stick around clearing Naxx and waiting for whatever comes next. My moneys on option #1, and considering how quickly Bliz adds content, perhaps they have set the bar too low this time. Something to watch for sure, and the numbers will give us the story soon enough.

  6. Saylah says:

    I am a TB fan. When I played WOW I listened to WOW Radio’s line-up. He’s opinionated but he knows that game. As for casual, I think it’s more a state of mind. It can’t be measured in the amount of time you game or what content you attempt. You’ll have so-called casual and hardcore players spending similar amounts of time in-game and attempting similar content, while others are at opposite ends of the spectrum.

    I think WotLK WOW has moved more toward the casual/accessible spectrum. Blizzard had the numbers to know how many players were doing what content, playing habits and other related statistics. Did they error on the side of too easy given how s-l-o-w-l-y they release new content? Only time will tell but there are certainly more options now for bored WOW players than past years.

  7. piolvs says:

    Faster rate, yes. Staggering, sorry but I have to disagree.

    I also think that the ultra-harcore guilds are also partly responsible for the increasing rate of content consumption. From the outside at least, it seems like some of those guilds are competing for first kills, forcing themselves to go faster and faster, completing content on PTR in order to achieve notoriety as soon as the content becomes public. And then, that notoriety is misleading people to think that lots of guilds in each server are completing WotLK content a few days after release. I think most of raiding guilds are not.

    Anyway, I think numbers will show the truth in a few months. My bet is: raiders will be more distributed along the different raid dungeons, with the number of players raiding higher than ever. A small minority -3, 4, maybe 5% ? – will be trying to complete extra-hard achievements, probably the only challenges remaining for them. And a even smaller group -1, 2%- will be out of content.

    Anyway, that’s yet-another-prediction and probably I’ll miss the spot by miles :)

  8. Mordiceius says:

    I’d have to agree with piolvs on this one.

    But on the regards of calling it the entry level raid… because it is.

    We know that there are going to be three more content patches with raids of increasing difficulty before this expansion is over. 3.1 is Uldaur, 3.2 is an unknown raid, and 3.3 is Icecrown with Arthas.

    Naxxramas, Obsidian Sanctum, and Malygos are the Karazhan, Gruuls Lair, and Magtheridon’s Lair of this expansion. It seems like less content because Burning Crusade shipped with Tempest Keep and Serpentshrine Caverns as well. Uldaur will be the TK/SSC of this expansion.

    On another note, the main reason raiding seems easier is because the difficulty is moving to achievements. The casuals (or it seems to like you would refer to them as the bad players) can now see all the raids because of the low barrier of entry but the hardcore can now have their difficulty in the form of achievements.

    I don’t see many people with the Black Protodrake mount (the reward for completing all the 25man raid achievements). No one on my server has it. Some of the achievements are incredibly difficult. For instance, go through a full run of Naxxramas with not a single person dying to any of the bosses.

    I see this as a win-win though. Everyone can see the content and players can change the encounters for the extra difficulty for a special reward.

  9. Tobold says:

    What I call elitist is you complaining that more people raid now. I’m sure Blizzard will add more raid dungeons in patches, and they will be harder, so there is something to do for the hardcore. Nobody wants to take the game away from them. But it appears that the hardcore want to exclude a sizeable part of the community from raiding. Why would anybody think that it could possibly be bad if more people are raiding now?

    Look “elitist” up in a dictionary, and that is exactly the definition: Somebody who doesn’t want anybody but his small select circle to join whatever he is doing.

  10. syncaine says:

    Yet by lowering the entry bar, without also providing the same challenge as before, Blizzard has EXCLUDED former raiders. The promise of harder content ‘when it’s ready’ is all well and good, but at 1.5 years for an expansion, I would not hold my breath if I was a raider. Raiding for raiding guilds pre-WotLK has in effect been taken away from them.

    It’s not strictly more people raiding, it’s just a different subgroup of players. Great for those who find the current raid content a challenge, but not so good for those who find it trivial. My whole point is Blizzard moved the bar with WotLK, and that’s not something everyone is happy with.

  11. Mordiceius says:

    Those that find raiding too easy can feel free to do the extra hard achievements. Use that for your challenge. In that way, they lowered the entry bar AND provided even more challenge.

  12. syncaine says:

    I could also have raided MC without FR gear, or brought 30 to a 40 man raid. The achievements are cute, but fluff won’t keep people logging in weekly, actual content does.

  13. Tesh says:

    Actual content like doing the same stinkin’ raid forty times before you can finally put it on farm status?

  14. Tesh says:

    Or is that “actual content” by way of grinding dailies for a month to get geared for a raid?

    I can sympathize with the feeling of burning through existing content too quickly, as the hardcore will always do. That said, making players repeat existing content in an effort to pad out the play time isn’t really new content.

  15. Brast says:

    Well done. I think you captured both sides pretty effectively. Tobold writes very passionately on the side of those who have less play time and do not dedicate themselves exclusively to raiding. I probably play even less than Tobold and am not even 80 yet, but still having some of the best time I have ever had in WoW. The 5-mans and quests are outstanding.

    At the same time, I see your point that for the person who plays 40-50 hours per week, the 5-mans and even Naxx-10 are somewhat pointless. It seems as though you have to target your content at a particular audience and someone gets left out. Those who play 50 hours per week are probably gettting left out right now (or soon will) until the next major content patch.

  16. Tesh says:

    Hrm… looks like I was grumpy this morning. syncaine, I completely agree that fluff won’t keep people playing for long. Real content is the ticket to retention. That said, I really don’t think that repeating raids until you master them is “content” in the same sense that new raid dungeons or new continents are.

  17. syncaine says:

    But we are kind of saying the same thing now. Repeating a raid (aka, farming it) is indeed boring, especially if you have no further purpose (like farming one raid in a night to gear up for another raid other nights), but farming is fine if you still have other content that is challenging you. In that case, the farming night becomes a ‘light’ raid, and a chance for people to relax. Raiding is an odd culture, but those nights really are needed, not only for loot but also moral. Hard to have ‘drunken vent night’ when you are pushing content.

    The problem kicks in when the ONLY raid left is already on farm, as is the case with Naxx now for many guilds. It’s hard to motivate guild members to log in and help out to farm an instance when you have nothing to work towards, and ‘when it’s ready’ promises from Blizzard don’t count. Our guild still farmed MC/BWL in one night clears because we had 40 Naxx ahead of us, and everyone wanted to push that place as fast as possible. If we already had Naxx cleared, I know we would have a seriously tough time getting 40 online most nights.

  18. Mordiceius says:

    *shrug* But I think that in a way, the truly hardcore will always be out of content. Unless you’re putting out a new raid every other week, they’re going to be constantly out of content. The only other way is to create the cockblock bosses that take a month of wiping on to defeat (see: the original Four Horsemen). And those type of bosses will alienate the vast majority of players.

    On the otherhand, if knowing that playing 40 hours a week will make you run out of content in a couple months, why not pace yourself? Why not play 20 hours a week and play other games in the rest of your time. I don’t want to have to play 40 hours a week to remain competitive. I want to be able to play 15-25 hours a week and play other games with the rest of my time.

  19. Tesh says:

    Thing is, syn, in my view, an endgame raid that is just stupidly and artificially difficult isn’t really something to aspire to or gear like mad for, it’s just an annoying waste of time precisely because it requires dumb amounts of time to grind in preparation, and multiple attempts to read the devs’ minds trying to avoid wiping. Farming and failing are just different modes of the same frustrating grind. That’s not fun, it’s beating my head against a wall hoping to see pretty stars.

    Even a Thoridal doesn’t make up for months of mindless grind and frustrating wipes.

    On another tack, if content is what keeps people in the game, shouldn’t it be available to all players? No, Billy Jo Bupkuss shouldn’t be able to solo the new Naxx, but players would actually like to be able to experience the game they are paying for, rather than shrugging and leaving a significant part of the game to the elite.

    Mordy’s right too in that hardcore players will run out of content. MMOs are effectively sandbox beasties anywho, where players bring a fair share of the “fun” with them. That’s the point of playing with other people after all. Why not create your own challenges? Naked Naxx? Random Respec? Auction House Monopoly? Battleground Blowout? Prove that it’s possible to level to 80 in a week with a Prot Warrior or Resto Druid? You know, impose a torture of your own design, rather than beat your heads against the Blizzard beatdown machine.

    Or maybe move on, and cancel your subscription until Blizzard makes a new raid? As far as they are concerned, if you’re maintaining your sub, you’re happy. The only way to get them to pay attention is to actually cancel your account and let them know why. No forum drama, no threats, just a simple email or exit survey directly to Blizzard letting them know that there’s not much reason for you to keep playing and why. They pay attention to dropping sub numbers; their shareholders demand as much.

  20. syncaine says:

    Everyone has their own definition of stupidly hard though, right? Even for most raiders, 40 Naxx was stupidly hard, but for my guild it was an amazing challenge. I accept that at that time, we really were near the Curse bleeding edge, and while Naxx was great for us, clearly it was not ‘content for everyone’. That said, WoW already had 20 man AQ and ZG, plus MC/BWL/AQ40, so people at all levels of raiding (with ZG being the minimum), had something to do. At launch (or right after I think), WoW had Scholo, Strath, UBRS, and MC, with MC serving as the stupidly hard raid.

    I’m not arguing that raiding should only server the ultra elite, I’m just saying that when you drop the bar to it’s current spot, with 25 Naxx being cleared by average guilds 2 months after release, you push out all those guilds and players who previously enjoyed raiding, and fluff achievements won’t fill the that void. Of course people can cancel, but that’s always the end solution to any MMO problem, and the post here is more to point out that by giving access to one group, you effectively remove access to another.

    It’s not a right/wrong or black/white issue, and Tobold seemed to take it as such, stating that raiding is now ‘better’ because the bar is lower. It’s only better if that lower bar is now at your level, and is worse for those who played at the previous level of the bar. It’s not exactly a bait and switch, but it’s close.

    I don’t play WoW anymore, so I’m not personally effected by this, but putting myself in the shoes of a former raider, I can fully understand why members of that community would feel betrayed. You play a game for 4+ years, and one expansion removes what you loved most, high end raiding, because of the need to cater to more ‘casual’ players.

  21. Tesh says:

    Any time a game changes, there will be those put off by the change. That aside…

    If gamers want something super hardcore in an MMO, ostensibly a “mainstream” game, perhaps they are looking in the wrong place? Especially because the definition of “stupidly hard” can vary (you’re right, it’s a spectrum), the only way to consistently have things challenging to you is to make them so on your own.

    It’s like the “NSG” (No Sphere Grid) FFX game, or the Level 1 FFVIII challenge, or the single life Ninja Gaiden playthrough. The company can never outpace the bleeding edge, and to run a successful business, they have to hit the sweet spot that the mainstream buys into. It’s not really going to be comfortable for the hardcore in a game that has to target a different audience.

    That WoW has targeted the hardcore in the past does make it frustrating, but in a market where a company has to evolve or die, Blizzard has to stay afloat somehow.

    …which isn’t to say that it won’t be frustrating for the elite. It’s never fun becoming obsolete.

    My main point is simply that it’s always easy to handicap yourself if you want a “challenge”. That’s a different thing from asking for more content.

  22. Melf_Himself says:

    I just find it funny when group of PvE carebears are arguing because they think they’re more hardcore than the other.

    Newsflash: You’re playing WoW. It’s a mass-market carebear game, they don’t really care what the ‘hardcore’ raiders want. If you want to really be hardcore and super e-leet, you’re playing the wrong game.

  23. Leala says:

    I know better than to try and comment on something like this but I just wanted to share my 2 copper, as someone who actively and happily plays WoW. I’m not and never have been a hardcore raider. I’m not even level 80 yet. But the guild that I lead will be heading into Nax at some point. Happily and slowly raiding at our own pace.

    The main thing I want to say is that I just don’t really understand where all this negativity comes from. The casual vs. hardcore thing for raiding is becoming really tiresome and as much as everyone talks about it, Blizzard has already made up their mind about the difficulty and direction of raiding. They aren’t making content for the 5% anymore. Quoted:

    Talking about “old” raiding as being this painful, frustrating, time consuming, struggle that you had to be some sort of gaming martyr to see is well… just confusing to me. Why is that a good thing? Why should playing a game be painful? Why is that somehow better and more important that just having fun? Who cares how many people get to see whichever dungeon? Who cares what people who don’t play WoW anymore have to say about the direction of the game? Why does everything have to be in extremes? Are we losing our perspective?

    I’m not asking any of these questions because I want an answer, I just hope that it can remind people to take a step back from the computer and just enjoy themselves in what they are doing, whatever that is. If WoW isn’t the game for you, for whatever reason, that’s fine. Just play what you want. But don’t begrudge the rest of us our fun with raiding or whatever part of the game we want to play because you don’t think its “challenging”.

    Game and let game. And I think (hope) that a lot of this is just controversial discussion for the sake of itself and not really based on anyone’s ill will toward other gamers. I hope.

  24. spinks says:

    Leala, a sizeable number of hardcore raiders really enjoyed the feeling that a lot of other people didn’t have access to the same content. It was never just about the raids, it was about the feeling of superiority too.

    I’m not sorry that Blizzard has changed tacks and it amuses me to see the hardcore guys crying. But yet, they all know how hard it is to keep a raiding roster ticking over and they all must surely realise how important it is to the future of raiding to have accessible introductory raids (something Blizzard failed at badly with TBC, at least until towards the end).

    I think it’s just a basic issue with PvE raiding that unless there is an infinite amount of raids available with perfect skill/gear progression curves, every single raid group will either progress at a comfortable pace or else come to a brickwall where they’ve either finished all the content or simply can’t progress further.

    So for me the answer is Blizzard to think of other things for people to do endgame aside from raids and PvP. So if the more advanced guilds can clear the raids in 2 nights, they’ll have other things to do as well.

  25. Rawrasaur says:

    I’d just like the point out that a gamasutra article a while ago posited WoW’s churn rate at being around 5% monthly. That means that they lose 5% of their subscriber base *every month*, and around that many players (or more) renew or pick up the game for the first time.

    As big as the egos of the “elite” top 5% of the raid community might be, they should not be so foolish as to fool themselves into thinking that if they quit (for whatever reason), ripples will actually happen. It would take a mass exodus for WoW to actually start losing players, and by mass exodus I mean that websites like wowhead, wowwiki, thottbot, allakhazam, mmo-champion, etc. would all shut down, and that the game itself would become a ghost town on each and every server. Even if all the top guilds quit right now, nothing like that would happen.

    The wow info sites would remain. Most of them depend on WoW for actual revenue; them shutting down would be in reaction to wow’s shutdown. And as for the raid guild that have quit… many, many of the top guilds have fractured, been reborn from the ashes, fractured, died, gone casual, etc… but they are all still paying and playing. Those that really have quit have been replaced by others.

    Anyone who really thinks that players will quit because they became bored hasn’t been paying much attention the past four years. Between vanilla and TBC, there were over 2 years that went by without a new non-raid dungeon, but people still kept playing (and even at the end of that period, Tigole said he only estimated 25% even saw Ragnaros). From Black Temple to Sunwell Plateau there was an 8 month gap of no new content, and even though some raid guilds broke apart, there was no mass exodus of players.

    There’s nothing that would suggest that a mass exodus of players would ever occur. My prediction is that WoW will eventually die as the technology eventually becomes too dated and unable to pace new game systems that evolve in the genre. WAR, AoC, and the like are all innovating in new ways. Sure, they aren’t replacing wow, but the small features that they do well are being noticed, and eventually the amalgamation of all of those features will make wow show its age, and we’ll all move on to WoW 2 or whatever.


  26. Neil says:

    Nothing Blizzard do is without a reason, no matter how much they may annoy you, they are very focused in delivering content to the majority. What they will not be happy about is delivering content that only a minority will ever see. They will have numbers of accounts, per server, that access all dungeons. That will be analysed as a total of the number accounts on that server. Design of the expansion pack will have reflected those numbers. There will be alot of metrics going on, that most people would never have even considered.

    I personally view the last addon as expanding the potential raiding population. Moving those people who would considering raiding to be something that other people did, into potential raid. Broadening the causals horizons into news areas. Education!!!

    I appreciate the more focused individuals will feel cheated, but your value will have been calculated into the great spreadsheet in the sky, and dealt with accordingly. Harsh, but it’s a business.

    As someone so delicately put it earlier, leavers will be replaced my new customers. Who may or may not re activate your account at a later date, but ultimately the losses will not effect the bottom line.

  27. Daniel says:

    I think if Wrath’s design upsets you, you should just stop playing. You’ve been had. You bought an expansion thinking it would challenge you like previous versions of WoW only to find it’s been tuned for people that don’t have as much time or expertise as you do. If I were you, I’d quit the game, and maybe look to Darkfall or Warhammer. Heh.

  28. Cecilia says:

    Daniel, Syncaine doesn’t have to stop playing — he isn’t even playing the game in the first place, which makes his emo crying all the funnier.

    (I don’t play WoW either, but damn is it amusing to read someone go into super-explosion-ranty mode for a game he doesn’t even PLAY.)

  29. Chris F says:

    I would argue the main issue is that WoW doesn’t have enough content. It NEVER did. To get around the “lack of content” issue Blizz put in roadblocks – lockout timers, “random” necessary gear drops (that were absolutely needed to progress) and boss-kill quest items to move on. Strip down all of that and BC would have been done in less than a year.

    So, with WOTLK (which I haven’t raided, to be honest) it appears like they took away alot of those barriers (good thing) which opened up the game to all, but “shunned” the elite.

    Make more content. Simple as that.

  30. Garona says:


    Let’s say, do you have an opinion on professional baseball? Have you ever played professional baseball? If not shut up!

    Do you have an opinion on the riots in Greece? Have you ever rioted in Greece? If not, shut up!

    Do you have an opinion on the 9th Symphony? Have you ever composed a symphony? If not shut up.

    Starting to get the point here?…

  31. Tesh says:

    *agrees with Chris F*
    It’s not like they are starving for money, aye? It’s not like they are starving for talent, or for people that would work for them. (Though I’d happily work for them, I absolutely will not move to Irvine to do so. In this Internet era, I should be able to work on digital property from darn near anywhere… but I digress.)

  32. Cecilia says:


    I have played WoW. I have raided. What I am not, is an elitist. Get the point? ;)

  33. sluxi says:

    I usually don’t find myself agreeing with most your posts, but this time I couldn’t agree more with most of what you’ve said.

    Indeed, the content needs to be challenging to be satisfying for many of the people that have previously really been into raiding. Blizzard has all the numbers. I’m sure this change in difficulty is a result of them looking at the numbers and seeing that this group of people was previously rather small. They are still trying to cater to them with the achievements in a smaller way. Sure, it’s not the same as having all that content for yourself and nobody else, but it still is something to try and do to show how good you are similar to for example the ZA mounts. Haven’t really looked into it to see if rewards are involved but there should be some to feel like it is worth doing.

    I don’t like the previous design philosophy of only letting the top 1% experience the hing-end raids though and I doubt it has done Blizzard any good. I don’t think 20% clear rate of Naxx (10?) is all that bad 1 month in but we’ll see. Challenging content should still exist in a meaningful way, maybe it does now if the achievements are perceived as something worth going for, if not then maybe the normal vs. heroic difficulty levels should be rethought or maybe my pet idea of removing raid resets would be the best way to go.

    As some said though, even the harder versions are always going to be tuned to some level that will be too much for some and not enough for others. Nihilum & co. have shown that there are people that are willing to go to great lengths to clear content and the only way to stop them from running out of content is probably the impossible cockblock bosses.

  34. QQ some more says:

    Why does this read like the rant of an 80 year old complaining about the “good ol’ days” before the 24 second shot clock or the forward pass?

  35. SarahTheGnome says:

    This reminds me about old people constantly whining about ‘youth these days’. You do know that this blog kind of proves Tobold’s point right? Maybe you should do the comprehensive reading thing instead of him.
    And you call the achievements fluff, well, so it will never be enough for you right? They implemented the achievements (which will be fleshed out a bit over the coming months, adding new ones with adequate rewards) so that the casuals could do the raiding thing, and the hardcore people could do the raiding thing with a nice twist, keeping it challenging for them. And even then you are not pleased. Why? Because you want to go back to your lvl60 cap and 40men raid snoozefest. That’s hardcore yes.

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