Lum has a post up today breaking down a recent Bartle presentation about game design. F13 community quotes are included in the post, and Lum’s conclusion is that we should be discussing how to merge the gamer-types playing WoW with the MMO players in EVE.
An F13 post he agrees with is basically the view of a gamer; the player looking to be the hero in a world catering to him, rather than to be a player taking part in that world. Included here is the mention of EVE, and how only a fraction of the player base takes part in what many point to as the best content; the high end politically-driven warfare in 0.0 space. What strikes me as odd here is the failure to mention why that percentage is so small. It’s not because EVE requires you to grind out enough hours to reach a certain item level or attunement, so only those with ‘no life’ are able to reach the more exclusive content. It’s because the majority of the play base would rather mine rocks, dabble in trade, and run missions because that’s the ‘safer’ content. 0.0 is this big scary place where all the bullies hang out and you don’t want to get beat up. Unlike in RL, the option to take part in something meaningful is available to everyone, but like RL, many opt out and take the quick and easy path to more instant gratification. (Big mac vs home cooking and all that)
That’s why you can’t really bring the two styles together. Those that want the ‘hero’ path handed to them are not looking to distinguish themselves (although they often lie to themselves and say they do), while those who play for a chance to do something meaningful are turned off if that option is not available. Calling your class a ‘hero’ does it for many, but for some they would rather try and earn that title rather than start with it. (even if most know they will ultimately fail, it’s having the option to try that is important)
It also comes down to how ‘dedicated’ you are to the MMO hobby. Going to a bowling alley and playing with bumper rails is good fun for some, while a serious bowler would have his experience hampered by the rails. The serious bowler is not a ‘better’ person because he scores 200+; he is simply more dedicated to that particular hobby. Mixing the two players into one league would not be entertaining for either player.
Hardcore Casual 
“The serious bowler is not a ‘better’ person because he scores 200+; he is simply more dedicated to that particular hobby. ”
Again you try to make the point that someone that takes a GAME more “seriously” is somehow more dedicated than a player that simply has fun.
According to your example (it is implied)the more casual player is just messing around once or twice a year. No “non-serious” bowler goes more than that.
But you are, once again, forgetting that many, many, many players do not play these games to be “serious.” You do not have to take a game seriously in order to be “dedicated” to it. Also, a “non-serious” player plays as much as any serious gamer. They just know when they are not having fun anymore, and admit it.
Every time I read one of your posts I always get the feeling that you want readers to think that you are somehow MORE than the average player, as though you not only possibly have more knowledge, but now it seems, more dedication.
Look around. There are gamers that don’t consider taking a game as serious as a professional bowler does as fun. See, that’s the name of game: FUN.
And remember: distinguishing yourself in a video game is nothing. For every really “successful” player there are a million more. Do you really think that anything that you have “achieved” in any video game has not been achieved by thousands more? If anything, the path of “play one game until I hit the peak…move on to another and do the same..” can be seen as anything BUT taking gaming seriously. OR do you take music as seriously as your gaming..listening to one band only at a time? Of course not.
Beau Turkey
Beau, that’s a lot of words to say…nothing.
And what does this mean, “…distinguishing yourself in a video game means nothing…”.
Funny, when i got my epics in EQ the people i played with were impressed. So were many people i didn’t play with. I remember being in the EC tunnel and lots of players were just standing there looking at me and congratulating me. This made me feel good about that particular accomplishment. And even though hundreds of other rangers had attained their epics before me it still didn’t diminish my feelings of accomplishment and distinguishment from many other players one iota (despite what you believe). To me, that was a very “fun” moment in the game being recognized by friends and strangers alike for accomplishing something that the majority of players had not accomplished, something that took a lot of hard work and dedication and a little luck, but in the end the reward and the “fun” that came along with it made it all worthwhile.
So, to summarize…you’re wrong. Have a nice day though.
Beau: “Every time I read one of your posts I always get the feeling that you want readers to think that you are somehow MORE than the average player, as though you not only possibly have more knowledge, but now it seems, more dedication.”
Beau: mote/speck
Beau: “Do you really think that anything that you have “achieved” in any video game has not been achieved by thousands more?”
Well, I conquered a castle in Lineage II once. At level 62, while most of the defenders were easily 10 or 15 levels above me. On the most populous server in NA/EU. In a clan all by myself. Took over half a year of politics and quite a bit of propaganda aiming at destroying my opponent’s reputation and power base though, so it wasn’t quick nor easy.
Yeah, I really think pretty much no-one else managed to do that or better, actually.
@ Beau
I jizzed in my pants when I hit 100 Lockpicking in Ultima Online; I’m pretty sure no one else has done that, and if so, good luck getting them to admit it!
I would just like to point out that Syncaine was able to use the word “WoW” in a post and not have it turn into a rant.
EVE is a perfect “part-time” MMO for many, due to the skill system and the need to set long term goals. 0.0 Alliances seem to require a bit more of a time commitment than just running missions in Empire.
You call life in 0.0 High end politically-driven warfare. I wonder how many individual players are even seeing that? How many of them simply log in and do what they are told by their superiors? If only a fraction of EVE players are in 0.0, then only a fraction of those players are high enough up in their corps/alliances to have some say-so over politics.
Also it seems that Low-Sec space is more of the big scary place where bullies hang out. Most of the 0.0 Alliances keep pirates/unwanteds out of their space with regular patrols.
It seems to me that using EVE as an example of segregation doesn’t really stand up as a counter to what Bartle is talking about. Those players are all EVE subscribers playing in the same world. That people don’t all choose the same playstyle is the point of what Bartle is angling at. They are all still playing the same game, just different parts.
And that’s OK.