As previously mentioned, one of the major factors in moving INQ-E into a C5 and joining HAHA was ISK, and more specifically just how much more ISK you can make running C5 sleeper sites than you can in a C3. In this post I want to talk a bit more about that, and also compare it to Incursions.
Running sleeper sites in the C5 is all about capital escalations. In fact, other than clearing the initial wave, we leave one ship up and never ‘finish’ a site. The 6-8 BS sleeper waves are worth far more in terms of ISK/hr, especially if we have more than a couple dreadnaughts in the fleet. The last time we were doing sites we had 5 dreads, and their DPS was so high that it was almost pointless for our Tengu pilots to shoot at anything but the initial wave of smaller ships. Why shoot a missile volley for 1k when a dread can blap something for 15k, and their combined firepower kills the sleeper BS before more than a few missile volleys hit?
I don’t have an exact ISK/hr number, but even running just a few sites is worth more than a billion ISK, and tens of billions have been collected in one night more than a few times. And when I say in a night, I don’t mean anything close to an old-school night of raiding, where 4-5 hours is expected. Rather, fleets generally wrap up in about two hours, sometimes less depending on the number of sites. Furthermore, pilots are free to jump in and out as needed, and their payout is adjusted based on a rather simple shares formula (Google spreadsheets ftw).
C5 sites generate far, far more ISK than Incursion sites, yet you don’t hear much about how they are unbalanced, or are wrecking the EVE economy. Part of the reason is because living in a C5 is far different than just showing up to an Incursion site, and this greatly limits the number of possible participants and the general exposure.
The other major factor is that while we make running C5 home sites as safe as high-sec Incursions, that security takes some effort and knowledge. We post scouts on critical’ed WHs, scan often, and have FCs who know how to respond should anything threatening come along. And even with all that, the slim possibility of disaster exists, and with capital ships on the field, the cost of such a disaster could be rather high. Add in all the other challenges of living and defending a WH, and one could very easily argue that the amount of ISK made in a C5 is more than justified.
The best part of all of this is that with the ISK flowing as it does, HAHA can focus much of its efforts on USING that ISK to enjoy ourselves. That process is a bit circular. We make ISK to have resources, such as POS towers, T3s, and capitals. We use those resources to, in part, boost our killboard by blowing up expensive stuff, be it ships or structures. A boosted killboard allows us to charge higher rates for merc work. High rates mean more ISK to do more ‘stuff’. The circle of EVE life is quite wonderful like that, and the actual making of ISK is just a small part.
Hardcore Casual 
“The best part of all of this is that with the ISK flowing as it does, HAHA can focus much of its efforts on USING that ISK to enjoy ourselves. ”
Well, that’s part of the reason there aren’t many complaints, generally WH corps tend to frown on other corps who are merely farming WHs. Hence the prevalence of FAPs and why a bunch of WH corps who normally fight each other ally to kick out people like Starbridge.
As a long time blog reader, this post really makes me think about returning to EVE again. It’s been a long time. While I don’t expect an actual answer (because I remember all the security around my old corporation back in the day), I have to ask: “are you hiring any pilots these days?”
Not currently as we are still getting integrated into the alliance. Once that is done, we will. I’ll post when that happens, but it won’t be for a few weeks at the earliest.
If you’re in a risk zone, and you create safety yourself, that’s sandbox gameplay. That’s building something and making something together.
Derping around in hisec, joining kitchen-sink fleets via the local Incursion chat with the equivalent of ‘LFG’ from WoW, is not sandbox and incredibly lame. I roll my eyes whenever I see Incursion guys spamming their ship type and ‘looking for fleet’ in local.
My long-term goal is to join a wormhole alliance.. however, at 2 million SP, I get the feeling it is very much a long-long-long-term goal. D:
So even T3 pilots are basically useless in C5s? Sucks.
T3 pilots are absolutely, 100% useful in a WH. Train Tengu with good shield skills and you’ve got yourself a platform for PVE and PVP. We have many pilots under 10m and some ~5m.
I’m very focused on Minmatar and I’ve actually already injected some Minmatar subsystem skills in prep for the Loki.. I’m on my way to T2 medium guns, and I have level 4 prop jamming thus far (apparently the Loki is mostly useful for its webbing abilities?).
Is the Loki not so desirable? Cuz I’d hate to have to crosstrain to Caldari and missiles when I’m this far along. :c
The Loki is one of my favorite ships in w-space, the cloaky version can put out around 500 dps depending on skills/fittings/implants and really has the capacity to ruin someone’s day. The mainline fleet combat variant tanks like a brick and has fairly high dps and boosted webs to boot.
When it comes to sleeper sites though, especially escalations, the loki is almost useless. Medium artillery can barely hit the sleepers at the usual orbits (55-65km) and occasionally you w ill get spawns out to 100+ km.
We will typically encourage our Minmatar pilots to use arty battleships for home sleeper sites so that they are more useful. Whenever we run sites in the static we restrict them to Lokis due to wormhole mass limitations.
Also, I’m more interested in PVP than PVE. I’d rather help the corp defend, scan, cycle, and go on roams, than grind sites. Then perhaps I’ll crosstrain into PVE ships later. (Honestly don’t know if this is a good or bad thing either..)
“If you’re in a risk zone, and you create safety yourself, that’s sandbox gameplay. That’s building something and making something together.”
Exactly. Lately I’ve been hanging out in a deep low-sec cluster, that has been “secured” (will use the term rather loosely) by a bunch of corps and individuals and so far it works as our base of operations.
The risks are always there, but knowing we’re actually guarding a piece of space because it’s out “home”, it just makes me want to log on every single day.
The difference between incursions and sleeper sites is where the ISK comes from. It’s ISK faucet vs EVE economy. As well as the level of risk, where in incursions the most dangerous players are probably your logis falling asleep.
Sorry Devore but you’re just plain wrong there. While a lot of Wormhole resources are in fact sideways EVE transactions that are sold to industrialists primarily for capital gain, when you are talking about C5/6 Escalations the primary source of income is Blue Loot. Blue loot is a direct ISK Faucet. You get items which you then sell to NPC buyers for ISK generated out of thin air.
That’s not a fair comparison. The money from incursions appears in your wallet out of thin air for basically no risk. It’s glorified ratting and you just collect the bounties and LP.
Wormhole isk is also made from killing NPCs but we then have to deal with possible gankers, truck the loot out of the hole and into empire and then sell on the open market which is subject to the normal price fluctuations unlike incursion bounties.
Big difference.
It’s entirely a fair comparison.
Devore said it’s not an isk faucet. C5/6 Escalations are most certainly an isk faucet. The money that pays for Blue loot is generated entirely out thin air by the server upon selling said Blue Loot to NPC buy orders.
That was the only point I really addressed in calling him out as incorrect.
If you want to talk about Risk vs Reward scenario’s that’s entirely different. I don’t at all disagree that when it comes with Wormholes any isk generated is leagues and bounds more appropriate for the amount of work and background danger that is possible, though I think a wonderful argument can be made for the difference between possible/probable.