The MMO genre is a funny place. On the one hand, it promises to let you play with thousands of other players and share adventures together, while on the other it sets you up to be a hero doing some rather amazing things. The original idea was to take a single player RPG (where you almost always play the hero saving the world), allow thousands of people to run around in that same world, and see what happens.
The very obvious problem is that you are not all that special if what you just did has been done by thousands of others. Slaying a god is not an impressive feat if that god is being farmed daily. Instancing, phasing, and NPCs making long speeches are all just shallow tools used to try and mask the fact that you are no more special than the thousands who have come before you, or the thousands that will come after.
The truly funny part comes when any MMO does allow its players to really be special, to have an actual impact on the game, as most players get all up in arms and rage. “I missed the event, not fair!”, “I’ll never see that content, not fair!”, “What if I join late, not fair!”, “My dog died, I can’t be online, not fair!”, etc. Most MMO players have an odd sense of entitlement, that just because you pay your $15 a month, you are entitled to ALL the content, regardless of how that might cripple anyone else. If a village is going to permanently be burned, by god if YOU can’t be there to see it it’s time to hit the forums and rage.
For all our requests to live in a massive virtual world, we cry foul as soon as anything happens when we are not around, yet at the same time some of the most memorable moments in MMO history are just that, moments. They don’t repeat when the instance resets, they don’t allow you to experience them again thanks to phasing, and you can’t roll on a fresh server and see it for yourself. Rainz only killed Lord British once; if you were there you saw something rather amazing, if you missed it, you missed it. Yet life in UO went on whether you saw it or not, just like life in EVE goes on after any of the more memorable (and not repeatable) events happen. In DarkFall the fall of Hyperion was special, and only happened once, yet you can still roll a character and enjoy the game today.
Impact events, especially player-controlled impact event, scare a lot of MMO players. Everyone wants to be the big hero, yet in a world that actually allows a character to rise to such status, they do so because they are greater compared to everyone else. The leader of BoB is a ‘hero’ in EVE because he controls a powerful alliance, an alliance with thousands of ‘grunts’ that follow his orders. A rich merchant in EVE is a ‘hero’ because he can control and manipulate the market, and he can do so because there are thousands of ‘grunts’ with far less cash and market skill than he has. The best PvP’ers in UO, EVE, DarkFall are ‘heroes’ because their player skills are above most others, and in a world where such skills can have world-impacting results, that matters. Being the top arena team in WoW means you have a high number next to your name, but you don’t have any more impact on anyone else than the top-ranked Counter Strike team has on the average CS server. Ensidia might be a top-tiered raiding guild followed by thousands on a forum, yet they don’t impact your raiding guild in any way save for a youtube video, a video that would still be there if Ensidia was not, as the “Simon Says” pattern for any raid boss is set by Blizzard and not the players.
And while the big impact events get all the coverage, impact in games like EVE or DF is not limited to just the major players. If a small-time merchant sets up shop in his corner of the world and out-smarts the other sellers in that region, he has an impact on them, one that could start a domino effect. Another merchant might move out due to the competition, he might ask his Corp if they can switch spots and head to 0.0 space, and that move might spark a Corp or Alliance war, all because some small-time merchant with some player skill moved to a new region. You changing your auction house price in WoW just mean the auctioneer mod is going to adjust, and ultimately a skilled merchant in WoW can at most buy his way to ‘epic’ gear or new mount colors. The richest person in Azeroth can’t buy out access to a raiding instance for the whole server, like a merchant could buy out control of a mining region in EVE. You buying your epics mean nothing to everyone else on the server, which shows just how ‘epic’ that gear truly is. A Titan ship in EVE changing hands means a lot more to the world, and it earns its epic status even without being colored purple.
And ultimately that’s where the fear comes from, the fact that like in real life, there will be people out there that do things better. In WoW an NPC will tell you that you are a great hero for defeating some mob, but in EVE no one is going to call you a great hero until you’ve actually done something, and that something pits you against other players and not some mob designed to die. The less impact that’s allowed, the easier it is for the world to maintain it’s illusion that you are special. As soon as the game allows for some player-driven distinction, the illusion breaks and most players will fall into ‘grunt’ status while only a few will rise to be ‘heroes’. For many, the illusion of being a hero is better than the reality of being a grunt, even if following that illusion means you will never get a chance to become a real hero. In a genre that allows anyone, regardless of physical ability/appearance, social status, race/color/gender, or any other real-world limiting factor to be special, its telling/sad that so many would rather live under the illusion of being someone than for the chance to actually be it.
Hardcore Casual 
A fine theory. World of Warcraft being a Massively multi-player roleplay game, it’d be logical a player actually played a role that made impact. But as you put it, that’s not really possible in an environment where thousands of players do the same little thing every day.
Which is where I think the roleplay aspect comes to play – while you can’t change the world, the NPCs’ reaction, you can change the reaction of the players around you in the little story you play with yourself.
Roleplay has given me a lot of the sense of accomplishment in WoW and is prolly the only reason why I’ve not given up on the grind yet.
“For all our requests to live in a massive virtual world…”
This is where you need to stop though. This is what you want, this is what I want, and this is what a small, what most people would call “hardcore” or “old school” gaming community online wants. The vast majority of MMO players, and gamers in general don’t want anything to do with this concept. Thats the problem if you ask me. I mean, if thats not what most people want, I guess I can’t begrudge them the kind of game they want, but realistically speaking, the fact that “where the money is” is not “where the kind of game I like” is, is generally depressing
Very true. The line you quote above is perhaps a reflection of the ‘MMO dream’ back before the genre was a reality. Before UO was released, the general excitement was around the fact that finally you can experience an RPG and not wonder “how much better would this be if I could experience it with others”. Clearly what the excitement was about in 1996-97 and what it is (mostly) about now in 2009 has shifted quite a bit.
I guess that makes me that old man on the porch talking about the ‘good old days’. I’m cool with that. :)
Heh, I can definitely relate.
Wow, a very thoughtful post. A great read. Thank you for posting that :)
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You’re right, of course. But here’s the thing: Many people, including myself, like the illusions. So when you say:
Instancing, phasing, and NPCs making long speeches are all just shallow tools used to try and mask the fact that you are no more special than the thousands who have come before you, or the thousands that will come after.
My response is… and so what? So what that it’s an illusion that only makes me appear to be special? It’s a game! Why shouldn’t I be the most important person in my virtual world?
The real irony is that success is just an illusion for the leader of BoB as well. It’s not like MMO worlds have much of a real world impact. He certainly isn’t more successful in real life because of his virtual success.
Isn’t EVE, in that context, just another tool to mask the fact that he’s no more special than you or I in the real world?
Totally agree on the ‘so what’ part. Most people don’t care, and if they don’t, WoW (or any other themepark) is perfect for them. Like my comment above, that’s not the original ‘vision’ of the MMO genre, but bla bla old fart me.
The EVE/BoB thing I disagree on though. While someones success is an MMO does not directly transfer over to real life (unless you sell virtual currency like in SL legally, or illegal in other games), it’s not exactly a mask. Someone with good leadership in an MMO likely has it in RL as well, and if applied, those with leadership skills generally are more successful than those who follow. Someone with strong dedication to his job in RL and his guild in an MMO is going to generally be more successful than a ninja looter (both in RL and in an MMO).
Of course it’s not black/white or 100%, but RL traits certainly come into play in the MMO genre, and the more a game allows those traits to show, the bigger the disparity will be among the players.
That’s why I always find it amusing people think a game like DarkFall is run by 13 year old kids looking for lulz. Those kids don’t have the leadership or character to be successful in a game like DF on the big stage (clan vs clan siege warfare), so while they might hang around the starter towns ganking newbies, they won’t make it into any guild serious about success.
Someone with good leadership in an MMO likely has it in RL as well, and if applied, those with leadership skills generally are more successful than those who follow.
Ah.. except those leadership skills are rarely ever applied outside of an MMO.
The life balance required to be that successful in an MMO is simply at odds with what is required to be really successful in other parts of your life. The time commitment is just too high for both.
I would also argue that MMO leadership doesn’t translate to business leadership. Quite frankly, most MMO leaders have more in common with the Nazi party leadership.
“Isn’t EVE, in that context, just another tool to mask the fact that he’s no more special than you or I in the real world?”
The difference being that /in the world of EVE/ you actually are.
“The real irony is that success is just an illusion for the leader of BoB as well.”
There may indeed be no spoon, but thousands of players, for a time at least, mutually agreed to behave as if Sir Molle’s phantom cutlery could be used to agitate their tea.
In discussing this one needs to understand that large sweeping generalities are going to be tossed about by me, so with that understood….
I often wonder if this discussion has a place due to the question of ‘why do some people like EQ/WOW/LotRO/Aion/etc and others UO/SWG/EVE/DF/Fallen Earth/etc’ being answered already many times over. You like the types of MMORPG’s that were your first, just like no matter what he/she looks like now, you still have a special place in your heart for that boy/girl who let you…um..well..I’ll let you fill in the blank.
This boy/girl or MMORPG set the stage for all your future relationships. I’m 37 years old and still have a thing for ladies that are a little on the trashy side even though I know they are no good for me because of some girl over 20 years ago. I also still like my MMORPG’s a little on the broken, open world side because of SWG.
But then again, perhaps it goes further back than that and based on other factors. It is possible that I was drawn to SWG and others were drawn to WOW because of how we played as children? I was an only child who loved to play with Lego’s, had a large imagination and loved PnP RPG’s. Maybe all the WOW players got to go to theme parks as children and played structured activities while my poor ass didn’t.
All joking aside I’m reminded of a quote by a wise old owl when asked how many licks does it take…no, that’s not it…why are there two camps in the MMORPG world he responded “the world may never know”.
“its telling/sad that so many would rather live under the illusion of being someone than for the chance to actually be it.”
It’s escapism for a lot of people, remember.
I think the flaw with this post, Syn, is that you try to make a statement about too many people instead of making a more appealing statement about the quality of the games themselves.
I have beaten the drum about how mainstream MMOs are weaker because they don’t allow player impact.
A game with a dynamic world is actually cheaper to make (once the process of creating a dynamic world is tested and tried by several firms and there are tools made available to developers to facilitate it–this currently isn’t the case) than games that need to have a designer spend four hours writing 30 minutes of content. A dynamic world can generate new content forever at a slight quality cost whereas a static developer-created world has a definite and obvious cap on playable content against which its players will inevitably grind uncomfortably.
Dynamic worlds allow in-game storytelling to occur in a meaningful way. That storytelling will validate character advancement and lead to much more playable and fun games. The way WoW and LotRO and their ilk are designed is certainly not sustainable.
Well quality certainly factors into it. A bad MMO is a bad MMO if its a themepark or sandbox, but I was trying to just stick to why some people are so averse to any kind of impact in an MMO. A very clear side-effect of impact gaming is the ability for the players to craft their own story in a way that’s impossible in a themepark.
I remember the uproar when we woke the Sleeper on EQ’s Stromm server. There was controversy when we announced we planned to do it, and afterward, our entire guild was persona non grata on the server. It had an even wider impact; the cheating uberguild on the server had been farming the guardian dragons for loot that they would sell for real money, and we took away a real life source of income when we woke the Sleeper. They were the ones fomenting the unthinking masses against us after.
I’ve been ranting about this to my friends for while now. I don’t know if it’s generational or a human trait issue but it’s pathetic. Complete equality is impossible, in life and in games yet players demand it and devs are acctually trying to make it, by dumbing down games to the point where brain dead monkeys can play them, but some players still stand out. There is always good, bad, and ugly. I’m not the best player, and I’m cool with that, I’m happy to be a solder in the army and have no desire to be the general, but at least in a game like DF I could be and it would mean something. In most of the MMOs out now the players go through the game being told they are the epic hero saving the world, it’s sad that people today have such big egos that they would rather carry a fake title and pretend they are actually good rather than earn it by being good.
Why do you think this is restricted to “people today?” I would argue that this type of self-delusion is one of the fundamental elements of human nature.
They don’t dumb it down so much as they don’t make it more difficult as you progress. Killing something at level 1 is usually about as hard as killing something at level 150.
If games were truly a measure of skill, then level 150 would be much much harder than level 1.
But then MMOs would have a bunch of people quitting who couldn’t get past level 65. That’s not exactly good for business.
I think you’re being a little harsh on people. I mean, I agree with your general sentiment about what makes a good game. However, you seem to really look down on people who want to be the hero in a game. A lot of people have a shitty job and/or a shitty life, and it is nice to come home and play a game where that isn’t the case. Thats the reality. For most people, the idea isn’t to scrape by in a virtual world, because they are barely scraping by in the real world.
Sure, it might lead to a dumbing down of games, and the reason I give isn’t the ONLY reason that games are getting dumbed down a bit, but your post seems a little insensitive to people’s real lives, and I just thought you needed a little dose of reality.
That’s also why people are afraid of “impact” games. No one wants to get kicked in the teeth all day by their shitty boss and then come home and get kicked in the teeth by a bunch of assholes griefing them in an online game.
That’s not to say that you can’t get griefed in a non-impact game, but part of the “fear” is that the consequences might set you back weeks of gametime and not just bruise your ego.
This is a big reason why I’ve really become a fan of the “phasing” approach. It’s not much different than a shared instance, but what it does is provide the illusion of impact.
Blizzard has really only just begun nibbling at this “phasing” thing with the PvE questing. They haven’t even touched the potential.
For example, I’d really like to see a game use the “phasing” approach with some open world PvP objectives.
So let’s say you see your city getting invaded, so you start defending it. You lose. Your “view” of the city is that you lost it — until YOU win it back.
Of course, you’re not alone, because everyone else who lost it (then or before) sees the “we lost it” phase.
From a design perspective, you end up with two phases for the city zone. Alliance controlled and Enemy controlled. Which view you see depends on what YOU have done.
Good read, thanks ;-)
As I feel I have to post every time anyone makes the claim “Everyone wants to be the big hero”:
No, they don’t.
I’ve played RPGs from tabletop in the early 1980s through single-player CRPGs in the late 80s and 90s to MMOs for the last decade, and in no format did I ever want to play a hero. Moreover, I have met and gamed with more people than I can hope to remember, who also had no interest AT ALL in roleplaying, or just playing, a hero.
All I’ve wanted to do since I was first persuaded somewhat against my will to attend my first AD&D session, at the age of about 23, back at the dawn of the 1980s, is to explore in my imagination what it would be like to live in a world where magic performed the function fo technology and I didn;t have to have a day job but could just wander about doing odd jobs for strangers and getting paid for it.
In the tabletop days, our group used to spend about 6 to 8 hours of each 12 hour session in imaginary bars discussing imaginary politics, imaginary music, imaginary gossip. The “hero” part, such as it was, and it was never all that much, got fitted into the gaps in the chat.
In offline RPGs like “Eye of the Beholder” and “Baldur’s Gate”, yes there was a plot that couldn’t entirely be avoided, but that was just a fairly silly aside to the main business of exploring the countryside, visiting every building in every town and opening all the barrels.
Then at last I came to MMOs and found what I really wanted: an open-ended environment that I could potter about in open-endedly, to no purpose whatsoever. And that’s what I’ve done for up to 40 hours a week for the last ten years. A bit like the fantasy equivalent of what I used to do for countless hours as a child, kicking a ball against a wall.
As I say, over the years I’ve shared my interest in doing nothing much over an extended period in various fantasy worlds with many online friends and acquaintances. Most of them never aspired even to reach maximumm level, much less see End Game content or make any kind of server reputation.
I’m not scared of “Impact”, I’m just not interested in it. It’s moderately interesting if things change a bit, but it’s nicer if they stay the same. All the interest I need takes place in my imagination, I don’t especially need anyone to provide more than the backdrop.
Good read. I’m unfortunately one of those in the minority like yourself who love “meaningfull” games with impact. I love it when only the best players get the best items, those slightly lesser players get the “second best” items and so on and so forth.
In other words, i need some “real” in my fake fantasy world.
The kicker is, i’m one of those guys who would never ever be in that top tier, or at this point even the second or third tier of players. Especially now with a family and a demanding job. But even though a game like Wow would be more conducive to my lifestyle I’d rather stab my eyeballs out with a rusty spoon than play a game like that where everyone wins. If a game doesn’t have real failures, real consequences and real accomplishments that evoke strong emotions in me while i’m playing then it just isn’t entertaining to me in any way.
Going back to EQ…i loved that game for many reasons, but the main reason was because if you screwed up it mattered. And therefore, if you succeeded in something it just meant that much more. I was in a small guild part of the time and solo the rest of the time so i wasn’t close to a top-tier bleeding edge kind of player. But through hard work, a little luck and working the EC bazaar for a couple weeks to get that ever elusive SEoC i was able to get my Ranger epics. That was the best i’ve ever felt in a game because it actually meant something to have those weapons. People were very impressed when they saw those, and it made you feel like it was a huge accomplishment because so many people didn’t have them and they just drooled all over yours ;)
Or even when you failed and brought down a group because of it…or just killed yourself or whatever…sure you felt bad but at the same time i still enjoyed those moments because it made the game seem that much more real when it could evoke those emotions of failure or fear or dread etc, and the world seemed that much more real and not just an amusement park on a computer screen.
Game today…at least the mainstream ones like wow, do everything in their power to avoid any negative feelings at all which imo also has the effect of watering down any successes so that the whole experience just becomes “blahh” or “so what…it doesn’t really matter eveyone else has that weapon as well…” I mean, people dying on purpose as a form of fast travel?? I knew the second i heard that i’d never be playing that game.
Anyway, hopefully games like Darkfall are successfull and we keep getting impactful games because, while i know i’m in the minority, i also know there are enough old school people out there like myself that would rather play something that invokes both positive and negative emotions making the world a little more believable vs. something like…Wow and the various other wow clones where everyone pays the same amount so everyone gets to see all the content and everyone wins.
Very good post. However, I’ve got a couple comments on a problem with the comparisons drawn.
First, and foremost, I want impactful games. I want what I do to have the *potential* to impact the game world in a meaningful and at least somewhat lasting way.
However, with this comes a problem. If you allow the actions of players to directly impact other players, the fundamental law of the internet rears it’s ugly head:
Anonymnity+Internet will turn a perfectly reasonable person into an utter asshat.
Don’t get me wrong. I really prefer gamers where players can be the villians as much as the heroes. The problem, though, is in accountability and consequences. Typically, it’s vastly easier to be a villian than it should be: You can terrorize newer players unable to defend themselves with utter impunity. For many players, the joy in ruining the game play experience of other players far exceeds any discomfort they could possibly suffer due to ingame reprisal/reputation problems.
After all, with one exception you can always simple reroll a new character, who starts life anew with no reputation issues.
While this is a daunting proposition for many – even most – players, for one who simply delights in being an ass, it’s no real problem at all.
Champion’s Online, I think, offers an excellent tool to help alleviate this though it’s likely not as necessary there as it would be in other games. There, you get @names, which are your account name. Thus, if your user account was Franklin, and your toon’s name was Syf, you’d show up in chat as Syf@Franklin. Any alts you make with that account are all tagged @Franklin. Because of this, reputation persists through toon deletion/swapping, making rampant asshattery a more dangerous proposition.
It’s a good step, but the problem does remain.
In the real world, you face real consequences for your actions, consequences that can be extremely difficult to escape, and there IS an ultimate penalty: death/incarceration for life. In an MMO – at least currently – it is extremely difficult to actually enforce any serious consequences, so it tends to bring out the worst in a lot of people. The “Ultimate Penalty” does not apply here – you can just start anew at worst, and that’s often not much of an impedement at all.
It’s sad, too. Playing a villian is *fun*. It was my favourite aspect of running PnP RPG’s back in the day. But it needs to be “realistic”, it needs to be dangerous and difficult for a player to do that so they act intelligently rather than just being obnoxious thugs. Well, so at least the obnoxious thugs can be dealt with properly at any rate.
Right winged in the real world but egalitarian in the virtual world. :D
I wish the real world was more MMO like and Healthcare a high-end instance…