Dear forum troll, a few questions.

This is what happens when you take a break and read some forums. You have been warned.

If you did not enjoy a city siege, did any of the following happen?

  • Get ganked on your way to the city entrance because you ran solo, repeatedly?
  • Tried to sneak in, rather than find/wait for a group to form and get in?
  • Enter an empty PQ instance because you wanted a chance for a lolbag?
  • Leave a PQ once it was contested, because you lost the PQ and did not get a chance for a lolbag?
  • Find an empty PQ boring, yet stay inside to chase the lolbag?
  • Ignore the siege leader and do your own thing? Do you know who your siege leader was?
  • Were you below rank 40, get smacked around by 40s, and feel ‘underwhelmed’?
  • Are you trying to run WAR on a toaster and a 14.4 modem with everything set to max? Do you blame the server lag, when you and your buddy are the only ones lagging?
  • Could you not figure out how to queue for the scenario or get into a PQ? Was no one able to figure it out in local/regional, or did you just not bother to ask/read?
  • Where you a key member in the initial push to open the city, or did you just show up once it happened? Have you ever been a key member in RvR, or do you just me-too along?

If any of the above applies to you, and you still blame the system rather than attempt to adjust your playstyle, please find a busy highway and play tag. Thanks.

About SynCaine

Former hardcore raider turned casual gamer.
This entry was posted in Rant, RvR, Warhammer Online. Bookmark the permalink.

22 Responses to Dear forum troll, a few questions.

  1. Hudson says:

    LOL man I love when you get on a roll. Nicely put.

  2. nick says:

    Meh, over half of those things are what I’d consider design flaws and issues with game usability that Mythic should be responsible for. The system’s obviously not perfect and blaming the player for every possible transgression isn’t exactly going to solve anything. I guess it’s all good to vent, though, but venting goes both ways. :)

    Sure, educating people a little helps, and trial and error helps too, but sieges have a laundry list of problems that will still exist even if you remedy your entire list of “player errors” above.

    -nick / reroller

  3. syncaine says:

    The post is not stating a siege is perfect, but how is any of the above a design error, rather than players simply being stupid/lazy/greedy? Not holding someones hand 100% of the time a design flaw now? If people honestly expect cookies to rain from the sky just for logging in, they have a game for that already, and it’s all kinds of shattered epic…

    But when half the trolls never even get inside, or bitch that the PQ is boring because they went lolbags hunting, it’s hard to take them serious. If the PvE is so boring, why are so many of them chasing after it, rather than looking for a good fight?

  4. shadowwar says:

    I’m curious, which portion is the design flaw? The only possible two choices I can see as having any merit for discussion in that regards are 3 and 5, as they are directly tied to empty PQs. However, players are free to leave them at any time, and nothing requires they remain stagnant.

  5. nick says:

    Calling everyone who had a negative experience a troll seems a little harsh, if not retaliatory.

    And “expect cookies to rain from the sky because they logged in”? Come on… if people are expecting freebies just for showing up, fine, then I agree.

    There’s absolutely no information about how sieges work provided by the game interface at all. A little polish on the *MOST* important part of the RvR game (according to Mythic) and helping players figure out what they need to do so that even the most hardcore doesn’t succumb to your list of failings above isn’t exactly a lot to ask. Especially from a game with so many help features that’s totally accessible in the low levels. As you approach the end-game, though, the polish totally falls off and there’s no guidance to the user on what they’re supposed to be doing.

    None of it is logical and half of it doesn’t even fall in line with the precedent Mythic has set earlier in the game. Getting to the gates and having to queue for a scenario where the population numbers are actually visible is counterproductive. Queues in a city siege where you need to stand outside in a lineup to get into the fight is idiotic. Mythic’s end-game is being limited completely by technology choices, server-side restrictions and poor usability that have nothing to do with gameplay. That’s just bad design.

    If griping about people who are griping turns your crank, though, have at it. I do it plenty so I can’t find fault in that. ;)

    (Design flaws? Go take a look at my post on the subject. There’s about a dozen, like having to repeat the same stupid scenario in multiple parallel instances over and over until you get enough VPs to move onto the next stage. etc. I won’t go into it as I already have elsewhere.)

    -nick / reroller

  6. syncaine says:

    Eh not buying it.

    The game shows you the city is under siege from the realm map. The game gives you objectives, a short description, and a map in the PQ. The scenario functions only slightly different than a regular scenario, and again has a short description and the same ‘first to 500’ goal.

    I don’t need giant red arrows telling me “enter here”, or a pop-up explaining the details of a new scenario. The initial confusion is part of seeing new content, and if it took someone beyond 2-3 tries to figure it out, I’m not going to blame Mythic for that one. The fighting at the entrance, denying reinforcements, is part of the siege, and IMO one of the better parts, balancing keeping a force in place at that location and working the scen/PQ to push victory points.

  7. Saylah says:

    I experience a lot less game fury since I’ve stopped reading forums. The only time I visit them now is to research a feature or class build. I used to read them religiously and left furious even if I’d been happy at the time I’d entered the dark cavern of forum content.

    Yep, much happier flitting around in my own oblivious ignorance vs reading post after post of troling. :-)

  8. Bonedead says:

    Geez, syncaine. We can’t all be expected to give a shit about the game we pay to play!

    (side note: finding/creating direction/motivation for yourself in a sandbox game gets more and more difficult with time)

  9. In anything in life, first impressions count, whether it’s buying a house, interviewing for a job, playing a game.

    I blog about what I experience and the impressions that are created by that experience.

    Unfortunately I haven’t been able to play for 8 hours solid, like you managed, since my late 20’s early 30’s. So a good session is 2 hours, so that’s the time slices I get to work with.

    So when I get to the maw and find 20 – 30 destruction outside the portal, you may find that tactical, I find it annoying (And an indication of a possible trend). Now that content is effectively denied to me, since a pug is not going to get through that lot.

    The 2nd attempt next day, we throw another pug together and thankfully meet light resistance outside the portal. Since I am in a pug, I get shoved into whatever scenario someone else has picked for me, which unfortunately was a PvE fest. Now I am wiser to the whats and wherefores, I will leave the group once I enter the scenario, so I can join a RvR focused scenario.

    But my first point still stands, first impressions are vital.

  10. Swift Voyager says:

    Sounds to me like the problem is that there aren’t any good guilds to organize and teach people. I haven’t played WAR, so I have to ask some questions.

    If I’m a new player entering the game by myself (no RL friends to team up with), what is my experience like?

    Are there good ways for me to meet people, join a guild, learn about the game? Do I need to read through an entire encyclopedia of information on a disorganized user-created forum to figure out how seiges work? Do the good guilds recruit new players? Do I need to do most of this stuff out-of-game or can I do stuff in-game? If I don’t have access to the teamspeak server of a leading guild, am I lost, since people on voice comms tend to ignore people who use the in-game text chat?

    Your guild seems to be a good one, do you recruit new players? If so, how do you advertise for new members?

    Since the game advertises as an RvR game, is there much chance that I’m going to enjoy RvR before I get to level 40, or am i forced to grind up to level 40 before I can get into the real RvR? If so, how long does that take?

  11. syncaine says:

    General region chat is used during RvR in all the tiers. Between that and warband chat, communication should be solid. The map itself does a decent job showing you where the major fighting is happening in an RvR area as well (could be better).

    Most warbands are open parties, so anyone can join them using the open groups functionality.

    I know CoW is open for new members, I’m not sure about the other major guilds on the server. The server forum on WHA has a guild recruiting section. Just joining a warband and chatting with people works, or playing a scenario or two. I would say meeting good people is easier in RvR than in raiding, since anyone can jump into RvR, while a raid group is tucked away inside an instance.

    RvR happens at all tiers to varying degrees. (based on what is happening in T4, and on server population) Most maxed players have some alts in the lower tiers, and its not uncommon for our alliance to have a warband set up for T2 and T3. Again not sure about other alliances. Playing my alt, I’ve not had much trouble finding RvR in T1-T2 when I’ve looked for it (not a big alt person though).

    Many argue that T1-T3 RvR is currently more fun than T4 (I disagree, but I can see why they would make that statement). It’s still PvP, so if you just don’t like PvP, it won’t change your mind, but T2 RvR is fairly close to what T4 RvR is (Fort/city siege aside). Basically if you are someone who is going to enjoy RvR, you will have fun in T1, and continue to have fun until you hit 40 and get into full T4.

    Not sure how quickly someone could straight grind to rank 40, it took me about 2.5 months-ish, but that was with a ton of early RvR, which was not worth XP at the time. I’m sure pure grind it could be done much much faster.

    I miss anything?

  12. Bonedead says:

    Warhammer supports altitis too well. I never thought I’d say a game does that.

  13. skarbd says:

    I think you covered everything there syn :)

  14. Micah S says:

    There is no reason to read the forums. Heck, the new game on WHA is to call anyone saying something *positive* a troll. Forums just caue depression and game-rage.

  15. squin says:

    I think a lot of what you are describing are attributable to design flaws. I don’t doubt that you can get around the flaws and have fun despite them. I did. (At least for my first few runs).

    But there is no question they can make the city sieges more interesting.

    Here are my constructive criticisms: http://squin.wordpress.com/2009/02/10/how-to-fix-the-capital-city-sieges/

  16. squin says:

    Syncaine: “The post is not stating a siege is perfect, but how is any of the above a design error, rather than players simply being stupid/lazy/greedy?”

    I think you have to assume in making this kind of game that most players will choose the easiest and quickest path toward getting there reward. In fact, in a sense, this is the point of the game. (If you assume the point of the game is advancement and leraning the most efficient advancement is the mode of play).

    So a system like the current instances being visible before you enter creates a situation where players forum shop to find the instance that has no opposition.

  17. Natali says:

    “Are you trying to run WAR on a toaster”

    Bahahahaha!

    Actually yes.

  18. Swift Voyager says:

    Okay, so if there’s plenty of people involved, and there’s plenty of ways for them to have more fun, then why don’t they?

    Seems to me that the game is trying to get them to do something they don’t want to do, rather than providing a way for them to get involved in a way that suits them.

    You missed my question regarding someone who doesn’t have a headset, or perhaps hasn’t been invited to a voice server, or doesn’t speak english very well, etc. How would your experience be if you turn off ventrilo/teamspeak and become just another soldier without a voice? For example, I know that joining a PvP fleet in Eve is strictly impossible without voice comms. Even if your fleet was extremely understanding and let you join without voice comms, you’d be totally lost all the time. You’d be reading every instruction several second late because of the time it takes to type a question and get a typed answer. You would also miss out on a lot of stuff because people don’t type everything.

  19. syncaine says:

    The ‘why don’t they’ is a human nature question. To put it short: many people chase the purples, even if its boring, and then complain about it being boring. I’m not going to blame the system for people finding the most boring way to accomplish something, when a far better solution is easily accessible. Natural selection or whatever you want to call it.

    WAR has NA servers, so that establishes somewhat of a language base. Even without a headset, everyone has sound, and vent/ts is free. As I said before, our guild is open for recruitment, so if someone wants to be more active, they join up and log into the vent server. Again path of least resistance/effort comes into play here.

    And like you pointed out, communication without voice talk is a crutch, and if you enemy is using it (they will be), why fight uphill by not using it yourself?

  20. shadowwar says:

    @Swift

    I don’t know how much of the production of WAR you paid attention to, but this game pushes you toward being in a guild. It’s designed so that solo play, while viable, isn’t optimum. This thing requires large forces of people working in concert against similar forces. There is a need for being able to rapidly communicate orders and tactics to the other players. Not being in a guild, and not being on vent is just making things more difficult.

    For anyone who dosen’t have a headset, just buy a pair of cheap headphones. I’ve never seen a guild that requires you to speak on vent, just be able to listen. If you don’t speak English well, there are servers for your region of the world, and I can’t imagine it being that difficult for Europeans to find a guild that speaks their tongue.

    I do wish that there was an easier way to look through guilds. EQ2 has an amazing interface for looking up guilds and seeing their size/level/recruitment status/focus that WAR could really benefit from. However, if you are just out in RvR and join a warband, it’s usually spearheaded by one guild/alliance and talking to them will help give you an idea of what to look for.

  21. engeponry says:

    I’m the only one in this world. Can please someone join me in this life? Or maybe death…

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