All cyber-bullies should die

Is it just me or is Massively home to the softest people on the Internet? Case in point: Goon being a goon, Massively white knights come out in full force. I think my favorite is the “There we have another reason I don’t play fully open pvp bullshit” comments. Kinda tells you all you need to know about the person behind the comment right?

Funny when you actually see the real communities in such games, and the real communities in ‘safe’ games.

How natural selection is allowed to work in certain games, while being highly controlled in others, and what the results ends up being has always been of interest to me, especially now that so many MMO’s have matured and established themselves.

Killing off the weak is not always a bad thing.

And in the right context, can be highly entertaining.

(Hunger Games was incredibly blah IMO. If you have a bow and are skilled with it, sniping people down might work better than running out into an open field…)

About SynCaine

Former hardcore raider turned casual gamer.
This entry was posted in EVE Online, Mass Media, MMO design, PvP, Rant. Bookmark the permalink.

117 Responses to All cyber-bullies should die

  1. Zyref says:

    For a minute, I thought this was going to be a post about how we were pushed out of incursions last night… lol.

  2. thade says:

    Sooo wait. If this guy actually kills himself due to harassment, that’s cool? Because I find it not cool. It’s about as uncool as possible.

    My first thought was “maybe the guy doesn’t actually exist” but CCP’s response seems to suggest otherwise.

    This kind of stuff is not particular to EVE alone. It happens in many games (and really, many arenas outside of games) and needs to be opposed on all fronts. I feel like the player in question needs to self-eval and get out of video games for a while; I also feel that the Mittani’s behavior should not be allowed to pass.

    For non-EVE aficionados, the Mittani is one of the game’s poster-boys…and that poster-boy just took the whole “i’m a spai and i tricks people into givin me stuff” to a new level. Nobody stands to gain any in-game resources if this depressed guy actually takes his own life. If anything, the real world backlash could be severe. What would CCP do with the CSM, the Mitani, and their yearly public event should the worst come to pass and their first New York Times headline is that their game is responsible for somebody’s death? They will disavow, like Blizzard did, but in Blizzard’s case the perp wasn’t a player-elected official on a board of player representatives. There’s little to no real precedent for the setting here.

    • SynCaine says:

      I don’t consider suicide victims ‘victims’. If you are cowardly enough to take the easy way out, all those around you be damned, then you are one very small step up from a murdered IMO.

      • thade says:

        Your response here is sadly typical. I read it as “I have no background in psychology and I have no family or friends who have ever taken their own lives.”

        It is horrific and real. Respect it or not, there are people that need help. It’s convenient to view them the way you are viewing them, but nothing more. And it’s tragic, really.

        Also, the psych profiles of suicide potentials are dramatically different from the psych profiles of murderers.

        • Sand says:

          had a buddy who comitted suicide. i miss the guy, but he’s no victim. his kid and his mom and dad are victims.

          i have no background in psychology. don’t need one to say he took the bitch way out.

          furthermore, anyone who offs himself over an *internet game* has no business using up my oxygen. feel free to quote me on that.

      • Slow Dave says:

        I normally have a lot of times for your opinions.

        That statement however is beyond ignorant. I take it you’ve never been close to anyone that’s suffered from depression. You actually make it sound like it’s a rational choice that they’ve made.

        • Anti-Stupidity League says:

          I’m not sure an open-world PVP game is a best game to play for a person suffering from depression. Or any massively multiplayer game, for that matter.

      • Guipri says:

        I usualy read and apreciate your posts.
        This one? Whatever angle I used to look in to it, I always got to the same conclusion: you need help my friend.
        So sad. Anyway. You will eventually grow out of it and one day you will look back and say, I really wrote stupid things. You seem to be smart enough to think for yourself. You just need more wisdom under your belt.

      • Wyrm says:

        “I don’t consider suicide victims ‘victims’.”

        Do you believe in mental illness or for you is it just an excuse pansies say just to avoid to man up?

        I have not much to blame Mittens other than the fact that he is an idiot seemingly unaware that words have some power. Specially when there are thousands of carz-bearz waiting to pounce on Eve and echo this details disproportionately

        He could’ve said the same or worse without any of the fallout if he was funnier/subtler in expressing his ideas. And yes the other guy is a douche. “Oh, don’t scam me as I am bordering suicide!” This sound so pathetic in so different levels it isn’t even funny. If I had a depression, specially a diagnosed depression, I would rather play My Little Poney than Eve. Eve, of all games…

        But that sweeping generalization… To mock years upon years of research with just a “i don’t consider…”

        Are you with the Tea Party and/or Westboro Church? *bazinga*

      • Stabs says:

        That’s pathetic, Syncaine.

        I love pvp but irl we should care about other people. And you’re wrong that mentally ill people are “cowardly”. May you never have to find that out the hard way.

        You’re dumped from my blog roll. Bye

  3. Syl says:

    “Funny when you actually see the real communities in such games, and the real communities in ‘safe’ games.”

    I’m all for social control – in real and virtual lives.

  4. thade says:

    More to the point, whether CCP is actually culpable or not is not the issue. That they will come under the magnifying glass as to whether or not the are culpable is their concern; they’d be foolish not to act on it.

    Also, the Mittani’s a tool. (There, I said it.)

  5. spinks says:

    I’m intrigued what CCP would plan to do once they have ‘investigated’.

  6. Kobeathris says:

    This is a case where the enemy of your enemy isn’t necessarily your friend. Mittens was out of line, and did a lot of damage to idea of fully open PVP by making it not about the game, but about the person. Open PVP in a game doesn’t equal trying to get someone to kill themselves in real life, but Mittens decided to put on his king of space crown and go and make it about trying to get someone to kill themselves. How does that help anyone but Mittens? It’s kinda like football. Everybody knows it is a violet sport that can cause serious injury. The NFL happens to know that while people want to watch a violent sport that can cause serious injury, they don’t actually want to see a bunch of guys trying to kill each other, hence, what just happened to the Saints.

  7. Clockwork says:

    Right, because he’s just “a goon being a goon” is a totally acceptable excuse for someone telling a room full of people to encourage someone to take his own life and then giving them the player’s contact info so that they can follow up on it.

    I generally agree with you on many things, Syncaine, but in this case I have to ask: Where the hell did you leave your sense of human decency? Sure, EVE Online is a cutthroat game that encourages a cutthroat environment, but this is crossing the line. This is no longer an in-game matter; this is a matter of a very real human being’s very real life. Suicidal thoughts and depression are not a joke, and I can’t help but wonder how The Mittani would feel if he had just gone through a devastating, life-changing event and then had dozens of people telling him to go kill himself. And don’t you dare tell me he wouldn’t care, or that he’d just shrug it off.

    This is absolutely disgusting, and the fact that you’re calling people out for being disgusted by it is pathetic.

    • SynCaine says:

      My guess would be The Mittani would stop playing EVE until he recovered.

      Or at the very least, not try to trade a super-cap with someone like The Mittani and then get into a back and forth exchange begging for their in-game shiny to be returned because they walked into a scam, and then bringing in RL aspects (real or not) to further the cause of getting the shiny back.

      If that’s who you respect/support, that’s your choice. I don’t.

      • Clockwork says:

        Okay, so it wasn’t the smartest idea on his part, I’ll be the first to admit. But if you honestly think that excuses The Mittani’s actions, then I don’t even know what to say. Like I said, it was an in-game matter to begin with, and it should have remained as such. Just because you play a game that encourages cutthroat and sometimes traitorous actions doesn’t excuse a lack any sort of empathy for your fellow man.

        After all, what did The Mittani have to gain from this? Nothing. It was a low-blow and completely unnecessary. Scamming the guy? Fine. He got what he wanted. Encouraging dozens of other players to try to get him to actually kill himself after the fact? Inexcusable.

        • SynCaine says:

          “Just because you play a game that encourages cutthroat and sometimes traitorous actions doesn’t excuse a lack any sort of empathy for your fellow man”

          Actually that’s exactly what it does. If I’m in a war with another alliance, and I can get that alliance to quit mentally, I’ll win. And that’s exactly what EVE is. It’s more about out-of-combat actions than who fires the last shot. Forum warrioring is what it is for a reason.

          The Goons are famous for winning wars not because they out-shoot someone, but because they cause the alliance to fail-cascade, generally through internal strife. And the next alliance they fight, that alliance knows what fighting the Goons means.

          This is another example of that. You don’t think this scam and the guy who fell for it was all over the Goons forums? You don’t think anyone else contacted him? Only reason its a story now is because someone at Massively happen to catch a bit of FanFest, and made a post about it.

  8. thade says:

    I admit, Clockwork, I found it a bit weird myself; I’ve always written off Syncaine’s presentation here as if he were in-character. Many of us do that on our blogs.

    Sometimes it’s appropriate to break character. This is one of those times.

    • Clockwork says:

      Couldn’t agree more. Personally, I find it difficult to swallow “oh, he’s just staying in-character.” That’s a cop-out no matter which way you cut it.

      This is absolutely disgusting and it makes me ashamed to be a part of the EVE Online and MMO gaming communities. It’s obvious that Syncaine has no idea what it’s like to have a loved one take their own life, and I hope he never does; that’s not something I would wish on anyone.

      That being said, the very fact that this post made it live is utterly pathetic, and the very thought that someone encouraging another to commit suicide can be excused by saying “he’s just a goon being a goon,” is disgusting.

      “Oh, it’s totally okay that he murdered that guy; he’s just a sociopath being a sociopath.”

      • SynCaine says:

        “no idea what it’s like to have a loved one take their own life”

        This is actually a large part of it. The harm caused is very real, and very similar to murder. The big difference being that in a murder situation, you don’t (always) asked to be murdered. Suicide is something someone chooses to do, even knowing the above. Like I initially said, I’m not seeing the ‘victim’ here.

        • Clockwork says:

          Yes, the harm caused IS very real, but imagine this:

          Someone you know comes to you and confides in you that they have suicidal thoughts. Maybe they’ve gone through a traumatizing event, maybe they just have a chemical imbalance. Do you encourage them to kill themselves, or do you support them and try to get them the help they need?

          Let’s take a look at the diagnostic conditions for Antisocial Personality Disorder, or sociopathy (of which you need to qualify for only three before you are considered to have the disorder):

          1. Callous unconcern for the feelings of others

          2. Gross and persistent attitude of irresponsibility and disregard for social norms, rules, and obligations.

          3. Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships, though having no difficulty in establishing them

          4. Very low tolerance to frustration and a low threshold for discharge of aggression, including violence.

          5. Incapacity to experience guilt or to profit from experience, particularly punishment.

          6. Markedly prone to blame others or to offer plausible rationalizations for the behavior that has brought the person into conflict with society.

          Encouraging someone to kill themselves, I think we’d all agree, would be considered a callous unconcern for the feelings of others. Checkmark number one.

          Most people would agree that if you see someone getting murdered, you have an obligation to at least call for help, if not intervene yourself. I think most would also agree that if you think someone is considering taking their OWN life, there’s a social obligation to call for help or intervene yourself as well. Not doing so earns checkmark number two.

          Just one checkmark away from full-blown sociopathy, and I’d be willing to argue that, since The Mittani seems to experience no guilt for his actions, he’s dangerously close to numero tres.

          If you still don’t think this is a problem, then I have no idea what to say.

        • SynCaine says:

          1: Mittens runs an Alliance, a large one that is designed in part to help newer players into the game. Seems he cares for others more than most players.

          2: The above, and helping the EVE society filter out those who do not belong.

          3: He has been CEO for how long now? And now his second term as chairman?

          4: Alliance leader and low tolerance for frustration don’t mix.

          5: I’d argue he profits from experience daily.

          6: Don’t know him enough for this one.

        • Hong WeiLoh says:

          Syn–Narcissists often do “nice things”, but not because it’s “being nice”, but because they lead to aggrandizement. “Look at how nice I am, what a benefactor I am, you should love me moar…” Mittens definitely meets the “self-aggrandizement” and “sense of grandiosity” that characterize NPD as separate from APD in the DSM as quoted by Clockwork.

          Just because someone does “something nice” doesn’t mean they’re “a nice person”.

          I’m surprised someone would have to explain that to you.

        • Clockwork says:

          I’m surprised as well, considering that part of the premise of EVE (and the majority of the premise of politics, and let’s be fair, CSM elections are politics) is “lie your ass off to get people to think you’re a good person.”

        • Devore says:

          So either a “nice person” or a “sociopath”? You don’t have to be a nice person to not be a sociopath, and not all not nice people are sociopaths. And if you believe you’ve diagnosed someone’s personality disorder by checking off some list, you’ve only managed to prove yourself the least qualified person to be doing it.

          Do we even know this guy is suicidal at all? Not a stunt to drum up sympathy? Sounds to me like something a sociopath would do. You know nothing about this person, you know nothing about Mittani, yet you’re stepping in full of judgement.

        • Hong WeiLoh says:

          Devore: “And if you believe you’ve diagnosed someone’s personality disorder by checking off some list, you’ve only managed to prove yourself the least qualified person to be doing it.”

          ^ actually that is “differential diagnosis”, and how a lot of diagnoses, psychological or medical, are reached. He probably paraphrased a listing of criteria from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, aka the “DSM”, which is the handbook by which psychologists/psychiatrists/therapists/social workers arrive at, classify, and officially communicate such diagnoses.

          In other words, if it looks like a duck, talks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it might possibly maybe….be a duck. ;-)

        • Sand says:

          Devore: thank you. the white knights are so quick to jump up on their moral high horses and sling accusations of sociopathy at every windmill they see. it’s nice to see that *someone* out there realises that ‘not nice’ =/= ‘sociopath’

  9. Pitrelli says:

    Well if you went for the shock factor with this post then well done you got it *golf clap*

    Have to say I’m a bit disappointed in your tone and stance on something this serious

  10. saucelah says:

    This post and many of your comments seem to assume that individuals should make rational and logical decisions while in the midst of a scenario that makes it impossible to make rational and logical decisions. How irrational of you, Syncaine.

    I can see where the issue comes from, as I have personally known people with serious depression and very real suicide attempts yet also known people with attention issues with very not so real suicide attempts. But there is a difference, and it’s incomplete to dismiss them all as selfish or stupid people.

    As for if I had been the Mittani in that scenario, I also would not have returned the shiny. It’s quite possible the guy was full of shit and trying to manipulate Mittens. However, I would have apologized while standing firm, told the guy I feel for his troubles, and carefully and politely suggested he take a break from the painful world of Eve. And I certainly never would have gloated or told the story in public.

  11. This has actually come up before in EVE on multiple occasions. And guess what, the “won’t you leave poor me alone?” sob story turns out to be fabricated, or at least exaggerated, a good portion of the time. And when you’ve seen it come up false often enough, do you still take each new occasion as true?

    And even if it turns out to be true to some degree, if you have personal issues that are impacted by playing a game (possibly to excess… this guy running a fleet of 20 accounts to mine) you need to deal with those.

    Your personal issues do not constitute a “get out of jail free” card to be used to make everybody be nice to you within the confines of an online game.

    Of course, there is the whole legal aspect of this. There are a number of jurisdictions where “being nice” online is regulated by cyber bullying laws. Do those apply to an online game? If I scam you multiple times in EVE, have I broken the law? If I headshot you in MW3 over and over again, do you have legal recourse?

    (An aside: Mittens actually got a suspension on the Something Awful forums (the Goon home ground), which are actually pretty well moderated, for violating the rules against disclosing personal information of other people on the forums. He posted the online dating profile of another alliance leader and was called on it pretty quickly.)

    • Kobeathris says:

      “This has actually come up before in EVE on multiple occasions. And guess what, the “won’t you leave poor me alone?” sob story turns out to be fabricated, or at least exaggerated, a good portion of the time. And when you’ve seen it come up false often enough, do you still take each new occasion as true?

      Your personal issues do not constitute a “get out of jail free” card to be used to make everybody be nice to you within the confines of an online game.”

      I think there is a bit of difference between a “Get out of Jail Free” card, and publicly targeting someone for personal attack because they either are, or pretend to be, emotionally unstable.

    • Hong WeiLoh says:

      “Your personal issues do not constitute a “get out of jail free” card to be used to make everybody be nice to you within the confines of an online game.”

      True. On that same note, it should not mean you get a big bullseye painted on your back for further harassment by a larger crowd, either.

      However, at what point do we draw the line with online vs RL? Should CCP gently cancel and refund his subscriptions? (or would that set him off even further?) Contact him and encourage him to seek help? Just how “responsible” and “liable” are they, and at what point do they overstep the bounds if they take any action whatsoever on it?
      To me this seems like a catch-22, “damned if you do, damned if you don’t,” for CCP.

      • If you are saying that Mittens, or anybody else, should not be calling out individual players, for whatever reason, as part of their presentations, that I can get behind.

        But if you feel it should only apply to people who present themselves as emotionally distressed (and I realize you are not saying this, I am pointing it out as an alternative) then I am skeptical as to the message that sends.

        As for CCP, I do not envy their position at all. This issue is so emotional that I cannot see a “right” answer.

        • Hong WeiLoh says:

          Short & simple: No, players shouldn’t get “special treatment” for any particular reason … good OR bad. No “special protections”, but no public “bullseyes” either.
          Just from a ‘freedom of speech’ aspect, sure if Mittens wanted to post on Kugu or any private corp/alliance/coalition forums, sure whatever.
          But to openly encourage the entire playerbase to fuck with the guy, ESPECIALLY on the grounds that he’s “mentally unstable”, is just fucked-up.

        • The only sticking point for me is that this guy brought up the emotion distress card in a clear attempt to get people to leave him alone. Whether it was real or not, he made it part of the issue. Nobody forced him to do it and Mittens didn’t go dig up this information against his will. And once he did it, he had no expectation of privacy. He was a fool to do it if was true, and a manipulative jerk to do it if it was false.

          Mittens was an ass, but this guy handed him the ammo.

          And just to nitpick, I do not think that the size of the audience is really the issue. If anything, had this not been picked up and spread around, only a small percentage of the EVE player base would have seen it.

          Nor is it what Mittens said. “Mittens is an ass” is hardly headline material.

          It is the fact that this was at a CCP sponsored event being streamed live and uncensored that makes it an issue, as that gives the appearance that CCP endorsed any statement made by the panelists. It isn’t “Mittens was an ass” it is “CCP endorses the persecution of the mentally unstable as acceptable game play parameters” that is the problem.

          Had this been on the EVE forums… and I’ve seen worse tales there… and much worse responses… go find that thread about the guy whose life was destroyed because he got kicked from Skyforger (only it was all BS in the end)… CCP could have made it all go away. But now that you can see it all on YouTube, Mittens just keeps calling for people to drive this guy to suicide over and over again with every replay with CCPs tacit approval.

          As I said, I don’t see any good move for CCP to contain this, other than hoping it goes away with time.

          They should be more like Blizzard, who never broadcasts anything controversial from their events. (cheap shot)

        • Hong WeiLoh says:

          “It isn’t “Mittens was an ass” it is “CCP endorses the persecution of the mentally unstable as acceptable game play parameters” that is the problem.”

          ^^ correct.

          Only reason I brought up private/personal forum posts, etc, was because as originally worded, my statement may have been misinterpreted as too far-reaching, a blanket “gag-order” on that sort of thing, which would lead to “rabblerabble FREE SPEACH!!! rabblerabble!!” and was not my intent. :-)

  12. thade says:

    Polite recommendation to do a little research before condemning a man to death. Fine place to start (with more legit citations than not):

    It’s seldom simply a choice to end one’s own life. Very often it’s seen as the victim’s only choice; at this point intervention is necessary and – really – our duty as human beings. We are not islands.

    • SynCaine says:

      Again, natural selection. Saving the weak and letting them reproduce is not a solid plan long-term.

      • thade says:

        “Letting them reproduce”, eh? That’s a bit twisted; not gonna lie.

        We’ve been cheating survival-of-the-fittest for a long while now, doing everything we can as a species to prevent our herd from being culled. It’s why we fund research in remedying cancer, AIDS, and other diseases; why people fund and volunteer in soup kitchens, or donate their old clothes; it’s why there’s an entire research field and insurance-supported treatment medium called psychiatry. It’s why wheelchairs exist.

        Sometimes people need help; some of us would give them help. Nobody sound of mind would condemn someone to death for being “weak”; nor is deep depression a sign of weakness at all.

        But, again, your degree…not in psychology. And I’ll hazard a bet that you didn’t do the background reading, before or after I put it forward.

      • Clockwork says:

        Do you honestly realize what you’re implying with this statement? Are you the biggest, strongest, smartest person in your community? No? Then you are among the very ones that would be culled if society ran according to survival of the fittest, and the big bad murderers and psychopaths would be running the place.

        As thade said, survival of the fittest hasn’t applied to the human race since the advent of modern medicine. Have you ever had the flu? Pneumonia? Did you let it kill you, or did you go to the doctor to get medicine? Have you ever received a vaccination? If you have, then congratulations, you’ve cheated survival of the fittest just like the rest of us.

        The hypocrisy is astounding.

        • SynCaine says:

          ‘Cheating’ natural selection is natural selection itself. If you have the means to survive, you survive. Knowing and having the means to go to a doctor is surviving, is it not?

        • Hong WeiLoh says:

          “As thade said, survival of the fittest hasn’t applied to the human race since the advent of modern medicine.”
          Forget “modern” medicine — you can probably go back to at least 500BC and still be relatively safe from “survival by fitness alone”.

          I said this once, in a _completely_ different context (about “totally safe hisec” vs “openPvP” compared to “real life”): “Civilization is all about protecting the ‘low-hanging fruit’.”

        • Xyloxan says:

          “As thade said, survival of the fittest hasn’t applied to the human race since the advent of modern medicine.”

          I completely disagree. “Survival of the fittest” is the law of nature and it exists (in almost every aspect of our life) whether you like it or not. What has been evolving with human race is the definition of “fitness”.

      • mytk says:

        “Again, natural selection. Saving the weak and letting them reproduce is not a solid plan long-term.”
        This is your answer to suicide?
        (Which is, as the link provided states, mostly done because of illness.)
        I wont follow your blog anymore.
        Maybe its because I`m german, but that is Nazi style right there.
        Hate it.
        Should we weed out people with handicaps too? Or just sterilize them so they cant reproduce?
        Yeah… you know, we tried that before. ~70 Years ago.

      • Guipri says:

        In these post and comments no one is speaking about a game. So if you bring the darwin model to the table, go look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself if that guy you are seeing would survive in an agressive natural survival environment. Even if you say “yes”. Ask if you would enjoy the process.

        And no. Don’t assume that the survival threshold would just be well bellow your capacity. Or the capacity of one of your ancestors…

        Oh well. What am I doing here. Tonight I just felt sorry for all the time I’ve been reading your blog.

  13. Luk says:

    Are you saying this just because Mittens is your fearless leader? Or do you really thinkg that it is ok to encourage others to end their own life? Stop for a second and think about it. Since when have you become a follower of douchbags. Yes the “goons” have CSM and null sec locked down pretty good, but all that crap means nothing when a human life is concerned. You and Syncaine both should think hard before you sprouting non-sense like that.

    • I am saying it because I have encountered the “poor me” syndrome often enough in my time that I do not take statements like that as absolute truth. (As you seem to, since you have declared this to be at the cost of a human life.) People lie all the time, and they will lie to strangers in game to better their own position with disturbing regularity.

      In fact, many will lie to their so-called friends. Not once, but twice, I have been in guilds with somebody who says they are terminally ill, which plays out over time, they say “good bye,” and are thought to be dead. Then show up again a few months later. This isn’t messing with strangers, this is screwing with people who are supposed to on your side.

      You want to say Mittens behaves like an asshole, I won’t argue with you. He does. But would you have been calling him out for mentioning this guy’s in-game persona had suicide not come up?

      And, if not, does saying you’ll kill yourself become a special shield, to be invoked whenever things are not going your way? Because neither you nor I know whether this guy was really depressed or just playing a card to try and get people to leave him alone.

      • Kobeathris says:

        “You want to say Mittens behaves like an asshole, I won’t argue with you. He does. But would you have been calling him out for mentioning this guy’s in-game persona had suicide not come up?”

        That’s the rub… why is Mittens mentioning his in-game persona? If the guy hand’t said he was suicidal, would Mittens even be bothering, or would he just be like, “Meh, I scammed some guy”? The issue is that Mittens didn’t say “I scammed this guy, he is a good mark, you should scam him to,” or, “This guy is terrible at PVP, and likes to fly shiny ships, you should go get some sweet kills.” He said “This guy says he is suicidal, why don’t you try to make him kill himself.” That’s not only a terrible thing to say in and of itself, it’s also bad for Eve specifically, and online gaming in general.

      • Drannos says:



        Syn, I’ve enjoyed your blog quite a bit over the years, and I tend to agree with most of your opinions. At the very least, you’re entertaining. But I think you’ve taken the whole “hardcore” thing a little too far here. I expect The Mittani to be an unmitigated asshat and particularly self-important in his little corner of the virtual world. But your response comes off as incredibly callous, insensitive, and outright mean. Real World Mean, not the “Harden the fuck up, it’s EVE”, in-game mean. It’s fairly sickening (not just at you, Syncaine, but at a lot of the other comments here – from people for whom I had a lot more respect before reading this post).

        Let’s not forget here – we’re talking about real people in the Real World. And, yes, it could be a counter-scam or a desperate attempt to “get back some shinies”. But who’s willing to risk it? And more importantly, WHY? Over a few bits in a database and bragging rights? Check your humanity.

        I get the whole “I’m a badass on the Internets” thing, and that’s all well and good – on the Internet. But this crosses the line from game to the Real World. YOU crossed that line from being an astute observer and accomplished GAMER into being a part of a very REAL problem – chalking the whole thing up to “survival of the fittest” are big words from someone clearly ignorant. The whole thing lends serious credibility to the stereotypical gamer – socially inept, insensitive, and enormously self-absorbed.

        Damn, man.

      • Luk says:

        I have no idea if this guy was really depressed or not, upset more likely, but when you or I are upset are we going be depressed and threaten to kill ourselves because of that? Normally no, so the fact that this is happenning signifies that the invidual in question has suicidal tendendies and has been traumatized already, probably by whatever happennign in his life, we do not really know for sure. The question is are we going chance aggrivating this indivual any further or leave him alone? A really bully and a prick will not leave that alone and this is what this retard is doing in public for everyone to see on top of that. His mom must be really proud. Are you not entertained?

  14. Hong WeiLoh says:

    I have an amateur/hobbyist-level working knowledge of psychology and sociology… and ages ago, through my child, teen, and early 20-something years, suffered REAL LIFE bullying both at home (abusive stepfather) and school that led to severe depression and suicidal ideation, that nearly led to actualization on a particularly shitty new year’s eve.

    So I have firsthand knowledge and experience … and enough reading, learning, and applying psychological and sociological literature and classwork to understand now what that firsthand experience MEANT.

    Mittens is a classical example of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. NPD “sufferers” (I use the term loosely, because THEY don’t suffer, THEY are great…it’s everyone AROUND them who suffers) quite literally see themselves as someone who can do no “wrong”, because any social standard that doesn’t conform with THEIR standard is itself wrong.
    They can easily commit “sociopathic” acts, but not because they’re sociopaths per se, just because they are so fucked in the head that they honestly think they are right and ANY act can and will be justified somehow — and in their minds that justification will make perfect, unassailable, logical sense.
    These are the guys who would happily conduct a eugenics program and slaughter thousands, and when confronted about it shrug and go, “Whelp, guess they should’ve been born stronger/better/faster/whatever, huh?”
    Also, to a true NPDer, there’s “no such thing as bad press”, and even if you’re attempting to villify them, they’ll turn it back around on you with suave and panache (Mittens is master of this, anyone who’s seen/heard him “at work” knows this)… before you know it you’re either defending their actions yourself, or you’re Public Enemy #1 for trying to debase such a cute, cuddly, charming creature as the Narcissist (and believe me, they don’t forgive, and they DO NOT forget in this regard).
    Narcissistic Personalities lack any sense of empathy or caring for other beings (only the self matters), hence why such overtly offensive remarks such as Mittens made encouraging others to harass the dude too, are made flippantly and without any regard for others — quite literally, there is NO regard for others.

    Sadly the disease is self-encapsulating — the Narcissist lives in a fantasy world where he/she is, essentially, “perfect”, and, as I said, any behavior or action is justifiable, and anyone questioning them is “just a hater”, or “doesn’t know me”, or whatever dismissive term of the moment you care to use. You cannot correct them, cannot confront them, cannot get them to realize “the error of their ways”. Psychological intervention attempts are met with extreme hostility, and the narcissist will generally terminate treatment after only a couple of sessions as the therapist/psychologist obviously doesn’t know what he/she is talking about, and probably has their own issues they’re projecting onto the narcissist.

    tl;dr: If you’re too ADHD-afflicted to take 2 mins to read a post, you probably shouldn’t comment at all … even less so just to say “too long, didn’t read.” Here’s a bit of narcissistic language that may get across to you: Your reading comprehension/attention span problem is YOUR problem, NOT mine.

    • Will says:

      You know what the difference between a amateur and a professional psychologist is?

      A professional knows the difficulty and limitations of psychoanalysis. An amateur thinks they can read a second hand account off the internet, and make a diagnosis.

      • Hong WeiLoh says:

        I have a SURPRISE! for you:
        I MIGHT agree with you, provided Mittens wasn’t so overt and blatant in his words and actions.

        Let’s move it out of the context of psychology and into something else.
        How about fire?
        I’ve been in Fire for 8 years, have literally thousands of hours of training and experience in suppressing fires in everything from high-rises, to single-family homes, to vehicles, to grasslands, brush, and timber.
        You may have seen a fire firsthand once or twice, maybe even read some books or followed a website about firefighting.

        Scenario 1: You may see a little smoke, and not know what’s on fire, or where the fire is in the building, but you’re fairly sure there’s a fire, you definitely know something’s wrong, so you call me (the expert) to come check it out. Dealing with this requires more knowledge, training, and experience than you have

        Scenario 2: You live in a wildfire-prone “urban interface” area. You see huge flames raging on a nearby hillside, the wind is blowing your way, and ashdown/firebrands are coming down all around you. Cops and firefighters are running amok, news helicopters and airtankers are circling overhead…
        You don’t need much more than common sense to figure out that this scenario is going to end BADLY for you and you need to pack your family and important documents/prized possessions/remembrances, and LEAVE. RIGHT fucking NOW.
        You should NOT require me coming to bang on your door and tell you to GTFO or DIAF (literally) to recognize the situation for what it is.

        Now back to Mittens.
        Your “average everyday entitled narcissistic Murrican” is scenario 1. Sure they’re kind of a dick, you get that vague sense that “something ain’t right here”, so you leave them to professionals to deal with, and just kinda shy away from that person.

        Mittens is scenario 2, a huge raging urban intermix fire like you see on CNN, only of narcissism and self-aggrandizement/absorption … doesn’t require any real training, education, or experience to recognize that “this is really. fucking. bad,” and run away (or stay glued to CNN to watch others run away).

        tl;dr: Mittens is a Category 5 hurricane of ego, aggrandizement, and generally antisocial tendencies. Those of you defending him are basically sitting in N’Awlins goin “Katrina? Psshh, ain’t gonna be nothin.”

        • Will says:

          To review:

          In your first post you describe yourself as an amateur. I challenge you. You respond with an analogy where:

          1) You are an expert.
          2) I call you for help.
          3) The problem that I have, that you are an expert on, is one that can kill me and my family.

          I’d say you have a working knowledge of narcissism. You still can’t diagnose strangers through the interwebs.

        • Hong WeiLoh says:

          Will–what I’m saying, my whole point with that allegory, is that “obvious narcissistic asshole is obvious” and does NOT REQUIRE “expert” training, knowledge, or experience to recognize… just as you don’t need ME to tell you that “BIG FIRE COMING!! BAD! RUN!!!” ;-)

  15. thade says:

    The MIttani’s psych profile and Syncaine’s lack of compassion not withstanding, I’m with Spinks; I’m curious to see what CCP actually does in response to this. Do they cross their fingers and hope it blows over? Do they toss the Mittani to the curb? Or do they burn the CSM on the altar of “Bad idea, guys. Bad idea.”

  16. steelhunt says:

    Because there just isn’t enough gasoline on this fire:

    Also check out the first post in the thread.

  17. Rynnik says:

    What a bunch of shit comments in here. I know someone who commited suicide and he was a coward who abandoned his family and took the easy way out. He deserved to die for it and he did.

    Why people think that being a victim absolves someone from responsibilty I will never know. Our society is fucked.

    • Clockwork says:

      “Why people think that being a victim absolves someone from responsibilty I will never know.”

      Now, I don’t want to make assumptions, and I’m not saying you’re like this, but that’s the same argument I’ve heard from people who say that rape victims deserved to be raped because they were “dressed like a slut” or something of the sort. It’s also a lot like saying that someone deserves to be murdered because (s)he put him/herself in a position for it to happen.

      I’m not saying that people who commit suicide are completely absolved of responsibility; I agree that it’s ultimately a selfish thing to do, and it’s not something anyone should ever undertake.

      That being said, does that really make trying to goad someone into killing him/herself right? I don’t think so. Two wrongs don’t make a right and all that jazz.

      • Rynnik says:

        Putting a rifle in someones face and killing them isn’t wrong if you have a government saying you are good to go, but saying mean things to someone who then goes and kills themself is because you don’t have a government’s backing? Arbitrary examples are arbitrary and don’t add much, in my opinion.

        At the end of the day suicide is the sole fault of the person who kills themself. The ‘abused as a child’ serial killer is guiltly regardless of how shitty the life leading up to it is. If you are suicidal you should be given means and quiet place to make sure you don’t hurt someone else on the way out – NOT pity or resources from the rest of us.

        • Clockwork says:

          I don’t think that government backing matters half a shit, and I never said I did. Not ONCE did I mention ANYTHING about the government in my comment. Straw man, ahoy! Killing someone is killing someone and I think that’s wrong no matter which way you cut it. Taking a human life is not something to be taken lightly.

          Anyway, if you’re done attacking that straw man you so carefully constructed, I’d like you to answer my question: Do you honestly feel that the fact that suicide is a horrible thing to do makes trying to goad or bully someone into doing so the right thing to do?

        • Hong WeiLoh says:

          “Putting a rifle in someones face and killing them isn’t [punished] if you have a government saying you are good to go,”

          ^^ fixed that for you. Majority rule, governments, etc, don’t make “right” or “wrong”, but they do _punish_ you for going against the grain, in some cases by sticking a rifle in _your_ face and giving the “good to go”. ;-)

          “At the end of the day suicide is the sole fault of the person who kills themself. The ‘abused as a child’ serial killer is guiltly regardless of how shitty the life leading up to it is.”

          ^^ what was that about “arbitrary examples are arbitrary” again? ;-) Just saying.

        • SynCaine says:

          Clockwork, the Mittani was only bullying someone to actually commit suicide if he actually believed said person was being honest. Considering the context, why would he make that assumption? Then or at Fanfest?

          While I don’t believe people who commit suicide are victims, that does not mean I’d push someone off a ledge walking by either. You are making that assumption here with the Mittani it sounds.

        • Clockwork says:

          Why WOULDN’T he believe it? I mean, look: I totally understand that lying, cheating, and stealing are part of EVE. But that should STAY in EVE. He took it out of the game and into the real world.

          Sure, there’s a chance that the guy is lying, but why take that chance? If the guy is lying, Mittens (I love that nickname) stands to gain absolutely NOTHING from it. If the guy’s not lying, though, Mittens could end up leading someone to commit suicide, and whether you think suicide victims are really “victims” or not, do you really want to be even indirectly linked to someone taking their own life? Why take that risk when you have nothing to gain from it? Just for the lulz? That seems like a pretty shitty reason to take that gamble, if you ask me.

        • Clockwork says:

          Just as a follow-up, again, I don’t think Mittani is at all at fault for scamming the guy. It’s part of the game, totally. I just think he should have left well enough alone. As someone earlier in the comment thread mentioned, if he had said something like “This guy’s an easy mark, scam the crap out of him,” or something of the sort, that would have been A-OK,” because that’s still keeping things well within the confine of EVE Online. Is it cutthroat? Very, but that’s EVE for you.

          I think the problem arose when he brought the real world into it. Could the guy have been lying to get his shit back? Sure. But he DIDN’T get his shit back. Mittens still has every iota of crap he stole from the guy, and he deserves to keep it. That’s how the game is played. The problem is, what if the guy isn’t lying? What if he really is suicidal, and now he’s getting dozens upon dozens upon dozens of people telling him that he should go kill himself? Does that truly seem right to you? Does that seem like something that a decent human being would do?

        • SynCaine says:

          One of the major motivations for the goons is grief, and inflicting that is never ‘in-game’, is it? It always hits the person behind the monitor rather than the in-game character. Hell, that’s part of the ‘win’ whenever you blow up someones ship, isn’t it?

          In that regard, what Mittens did was what the goons have been doing since… well most likely the birth of the internet. Again, the major difference here, and the reason people are talking about it NOW, is because he happened to be doing what he is always doing on a stream picked up by more people than usual.

          Or in other words, are we going to grab the pitchforks whenever anyone online types “go kill yourself” now? Should Sony, MS, and anyone else running a server start sending out “Are you ok” letters to anyone who claims to be suicidal? Or only do it when said person says it on a stream that gets above X number of viewers?

        • Hong WeiLoh says:

          Syn: “Or in other words, are we going to grab the pitchforks whenever anyone online types “go kill yourself” now? Should Sony, MS, and anyone else running a server start sending out “Are you ok” letters to anyone who claims to be suicidal? ”

          Why not? Facebook does it, apparently. Slacktivism is easy, after all. Only takes a couple pushes of a button, hence its popularity.

          If Mittens’ comments were put into a video decrying cyber-bullying, posted on YouTube, and linked to Facebook, he’d feel a great disturbance in the Force: as if millions of “like” and “share” buttons were pushed, and :immadbro: raeg! comments posted… and he would love it, because there’s no such thing as bad publicity, _especially_ when you’re The Mittani.

          Then someone would post a cute lolcatz pic and he’d be soooo 32 seconds ago, anyways. ;-)

          At the risk of further “obvious statement is obvious” being confused for “moar amateur-psychoanalysis”: Mittens is an attention-whore. He’s not happy unless he’s in the limelight, the center of attention. If he’s not there, he attempts to BE there.

          Let’s face it (he sure won’t but we can on his behalf), he’s kind of old news. Been around a while, leader of the Goons, yadda-yadda… #Chairman4Life of a video game advisory council, whoopdy-fucking-do. As it is, he’s kind of overexposed himself… we’re inundated with “Mittens Mittens Mittens”, he’s interjected himself into just about every part and playstyle of EVE so well.

          We, the Great Unwashed Masses, are becoming inured to Mittens’ propaganda machine, his antics are kind of dull and passe` now… so he needs to up his game.

          Enter a new “Shock and Revile” campaign. “I scam, I steal, I ‘interdicted’ ice mining, but … People aren’t talking about me enough, I need to do something REALLY revolting..” says Chairman4Life..

          “Hi, I’m Mittens. You all know me and love me…you know you love me, just admit it… anyways, I’m here to talk to you about a new scam I pulled… [crickets] …. on a MENTALLY UNSTABLE guy who MIGHT just commit suicide!!! [rabblerabblerabble!!! wtfsauceomgbbq!! wehateMittens! weloveMittens! goes the crowd] …. aaahhh that’s more like it!”

  18. Hong WeiLoh says:

    In the end, the only thing in this whole wide world that you can really, truly control … is yourself. Even if you “give up” your control: to other people, to a cause, to an addiction, to depression … the act of “giving up” is itself an act and exercising “control” over yourself. Accordingly, you can regain your control by realizing you never really “lost” it in the first place.
    It took me more than 2/3rds of 33 years to well and truly understand that. But then again, I’m…

    -a Moron and Terrible PvPer

  19. Chris K. says:

    It was not a “goon being a goon”, It was the president of the CSM, the representative of all EvE players (because that’s how a democracy works), being a dick over a live stream.

    “Killing off the weak is not always a bad thing.”

    You’re sounding more like Gevlon every day, with his Morons and Slacker theories.

    • SynCaine says:

      Being elected chairman does not stop him from being a goon, and I don’t see the difference between a forum post and a stream; other than the number of people who see it.

  20. Rynnik says:

    @ Clockwork: Sorry, I was generally ranting at some of the ridiculous victimization crap in here. I didn’t mean to ignore your question, as I wasn’t specifically adressing the question about whether Mittens was a villan or not for his comments in my post, and didn’t realise the importance to you of tying it back there.

    “Do you honestly feel that the fact that suicide is a horrible thing to do makes trying to goad or bully someone into doing so the right thing to do?”

    I am ambivalent.

  21. Wloire says:

    When did we become so god damn sensitive?

    If every player who expressed depression or the desire to “kill themselves” following an upsetting event in EVE actually meant what they said then the game would have no players left.

    The guy was trying to gain sympathy in a last act of desperation and exaggerated the same off handed comment we all make following a particularly devastating loss. Mittens (who is a tool don;t get me wrong) noticed this and did what goons do.

    The man was never suicidal.

    And if he was? If he was willing to place unimaginable, life-shattering pain on his friends and family and was willing to take the cowardly way out over his hobby of internet pixels? Even knowing that he has access to more help than any generation of human being prior? Even knowing as we do the kind of devastation your sweet release causes?

    Then he is a terrible fucking human and quite possibly deserves it. We cannot save everyone. Give your sympathy to the families rather than the suicide ‘victim’,

  22. Wloire says:

    [21:29:34] Xeross155 > Anyway, CCP is doing an internal audit and **** about it, 3 game news websites have reported it so far, basically tagging it cyber-bullying
    [21:30:50] The Wis > Ok.. Well that is nice. Hmm.. wait.. If i do kill my self they might arrest him and prosicute him since he is in the US.. That would really be bad for him.
    [21:31:01] The Wis > Just kidding of course but a thought.

    “The Wis” being the aforementioned ‘suicidal’ player.

    Between people looking for drama and people trying to drag Mittens out of the chair because they hate him this is definately shaping up to be quite the selfish event.

  23. Peter Newman says:

    JUst to follow up, Mittens has mad an “offical” (ish) reply:

  24. Anonymous says:

    I wonder how many long-time readers Syncaine just lost with this post.

  25. Pingback: Mittens, and the hole he has dug for himself « Serpentine's Eve

  26. Bernard says:

    I’ve often seen comments about EvE’s tough mechanics filtering out the wrong kind of people.

    But I’ve come to realise that it’s the other way round. Far better that EvE takes all of the naive SA/4chan kids with big bad internet personas out of my other MMOs. The guys that find other people’s real life problems a source of entertainment.

    And yes, the guy may well have been lying about his mental health issues. But once you have your ISK, what do you lose from erring on the side of caution??

    • Wloire says:

      I’ve played many a MMO over the years since around 00/01 and I’ve found consistently that there are all types playing different roles in all sorts of MMO’s.

      Most of the most notorious, heartless, sociopathathic villains in EVE are normal down to earth guys who understand that they are playing a game. Guys you and me would have no troubles sitting down with for a beer, guys who would gladly put their lives on the line for their family/friends.

      In the end Alex Gianturco is probably a stand up guy. He got drunk and said something he probably shouldn’t have, you and I know everyone’s done it. It was then seized by his enemies in order to make a show of it and bring down their hated nemesis.

      There’s no need to tar me and 300 000 other EVE players because many of us enjoy blowing up other people’s internet pixels.

    • Sand says:

      that’s awesome. you go ahead and play your other MMos, and we’ll just muddle on as best we can without you.

  27. Rammstein says:

    In the few days in real time that have elapsed while people spent hundreds of man-hours reading and decrying this post about someone else’s post about someone’s comment about the desirability of the suicide of some guy who is famous for ice mining with 23 accounts and getting scammed and pwned in a game famous for scamming and pwning, thousands of children died preventable deaths in the real world.

    Blogging, about gaming, is not srs bzns. It’s an amusing intellectual exercise. If you want to argue morality, try doing it in some arena that doesn’t inherently undermine the credibility of every thought you transcribe. Otherwise, it ends up being nothing but name calling, which ironically is something that someone against the suicide of others should theoretically avoid.

    Whether because CCP forced him to, or because he realized advocating someone’s suicide violates US criminal law, or because he thought better of his statements, Mittens has apologized. Since we’ll probably never know which of those motivated the apology, I can’t see that doing anything but subtracting from the discussion value of the incident.

    In the end, everyone participating in the drama of this thread is enacting Mittani’s vision for him. If you aren’t a fan of the Mittani, but posted here, then he has defeated you in this battle.

  28. cyndre says:

    He is an internet Villian. If you do business with a (VERY, VERY FAMOUS) internet villian, and then follow it up with personal messages whining, you should understand what you are getting yourself into.

    Simple fact is, its almost certainly fake anyway. “Wait give me back my stuff, I am suicidal.” Yea, right.

    I still don’t see where any of this is a story…? It isn’t like he gave out this guys real life name and address and told people to go kill him…

    You can’t cyber-bully people in a game that is designed for combat, both pshycological and digital… This isn’t Facebook… its EVE.

  29. Professer says:

    Jeez guys, you’re all taking this TOO SERIOUSLY. It’s just the typical run of the mill EVE stuff, except a few drinks were had and something inconsiderate and of touchy subject matter was said. If he had left out suicide and just told everyone to grief the guy, no one would have really cared. You’re all just getting upset over one little drunken mishap.

    It’s best to get over yourself and move on. Getting all caught up in something so insignificant (internet drama) does nothing good for yourself. Just move on, goons will be goons.

  30. Bristal says:

    “Oh well. What am I doing here. Tonight I just felt sorry for all the time I’ve been reading your blog.”


    Stop playing EVE, it’s seriously screwing you up.

  31. thade says:

    Two things here, both related.

    There’s a lingering but fundamental misunderstanding here regarding survival of the fittest. It is not an individual thing, this merit and ability to endure. It is species-wide; it’s all of us together. It’s why pack-animals stick together and defend their wounded. It’s something we do too. Sometimes we fail and that hurts really bad. There is a reason it hurts; a reason that some of us get so angry about it.

    When someone makes the decision to destroy themselves, they are to blame but only in part. That’s the hardest part for people to accept really, and why some of us so vehemently and angrily decry suicide victims as if they are entirely to blame. It’s easy, right? They’re not exactly around to defend themselves. It’s also necessary because they’re no longer around to help sort things out; it seems a quick and easy way to resolution.

    Only, it isn’t resolution. The blame game never is, and in this case it’s especially not.

    When someone close to us takes their own life, the reason it hurts so much is that we share in that failure of responsibility; that’s natural, really. Pack mentality. Survival of the fittest. We weren’t there for our pack mate and the guy checked out. Who failed?

    We all did.

    There’s a reason all of those 1-800 suicide prevention hot lines exist, and a reason college residence assistants and floor managers are tasked with knowing a great deal about them. It’s a real issue and we need to work together to conquer it.

    If someone tells you “I think I’m going to kill myself” and you tell them “Go ahead”, you have failed.

    • Rammstein says:

      Failed at being a pack animal? Somehow, that doesn’t sting as much as you seem to think it does.

    • Rammstein says:

      Pack mentality is responsible for most of the worst abominations committed by man. If you need to evoke that to defend your position, then you might as well concede the point.

    • Sand says:

      i accept none of this failure to keep weaklings from killing themselves over videogames. i am responsible for my own goddamn decisions and those alone, as is every other adult in the world.

      if you’re so damn keen to accept responsibility for all those selfish and cowardly people who would rather off themselves than accept the help so often offered, then may i impolitely suggest you take yourself somewhere else to suffer the appropriate penalty for your failure and leave me out of it.

  32. Xyloxan says:

    After reading all those posts lamenting SynCaine’s insensitivity and his lack of understanding of human nature, I read his post again. I cannot find a single sentence about RL. Did he edit his post and now I’m missing something??

  33. Bob says:

    Having been the victim of bullying that made my life miserable in school I can’t disagree with you more. There is no place for it in society no matter where it happens and you show yourself as quite the heartless bastard in this post dude.

    I feel sorry for you that you actually feel this way.

    • Anonymous says:

      Children bully victims without consent. Bullying is terrible.
      Adults harass/stalk/terrorise victims without consent. This can vary from misplaced joking to crimes of war.

      My childhood experiences involving bullying taught me to attempt to recognise and avoid bullies. The only successful attempts at bullying me were in situations I could not avoid, without my consent. My successful attempts at bullying involved jokes taken too far. The intent was never to bully from the start in my case, things just ended up crossing a line in the heat of the moment, cheered on by the crowd.

      Cyberbullying boggles my mind. I do not understand it at all. You choose where you go on the internet, what you do on the internet, who you interact with on the internet, what personal information you share on the internet. Your internet experience is solely driven by what you decide. You leave and return at your choosing. The content you view, you choose. The only pain inflicted by the internet that cannot be avoided is fiscal. If your internet service is subsidised or provided by another, that pain is nonexistent disregarding predatory malware.

      • I PVP Blog Comments says:

        “Your internet experience is solely driven by what you decide.” – So you’re okay if someone DDoS you to the Stone Age the next time you play some competitive game? Because, hey, your experience is solely driven what you decide and no one can affect it any way, right?

        Or you’re okay that someone shares your in-game username with half the server population and they spent the next month spamming your in-game mailbox into oblivion, because — hey, no one can bully you as you can solely decide what you do and where you go. And why not let that someone activate his botnet and do the same thing with your real-life inbox as well, that wouldn’t be cyberbullying at all, right?

        These are just a couple of examples, I could easily list a few dozen more. In other words – for the less intelligent people in the audience – of course you can bully people online and in-game.

        Luckily these things are usually forbidden in EULA and TOS, I’m sure you don’t have rights to do those things in Eve, either. Apparently, some things that Mittani did should be against TOS and I’m sure if they aren’t, they will be in the next version. Even when you’re trying to win (or powergamers, read: while you’re winning), you should do it by the rules, otherwise you’re just a munchkin and no one likes munchkins. Even a monkey can with the game if it’s allowed to break the rules.

  34. Anonymous says:

    Oh, hi, SynCaine!

    Get the hell out of my feed reader.

    See ya!

  35. Professer says:

    you’re all overreacting

  36. Anonymous says:

    These all are good information about Cyberbullying,

  37. thade says:

    “It’s not our fault…it’s theirs,” will probably be the downfall of species. I try to combat that mentality whenever I can.

    It’s always our fault; we’re in this together. I’m sorry that makes people angry. That certainly wasn’t my intention.

    Anyway, video games.

  38. KSC says:

    I couldn’t care less about the whole debacle. I’m just disappointed SynCaine (and others) has no compassion for suicidal people. It’s not a choice. Choice implies alternative options – these people feel they have none. I hope it’s just internet bravado on your parts, because that kind of thinking really shows a lack of character.

    • SynCaine says:

      It’s an opinion I hold, that you don’t agree with. If we disagree on abortion, can I say you “really show a lack of character” if you don’t agree with my viewpoint on the issue?

      • Rammstein says:

        Philosophically speaking, the entire point of the western school of moral philosophy is to develop theories to the point of being able to say someone else who disagrees with the objective conclusions drawn from them shows a lack of character. They say that without that goal of an objective framework, morality becomes pointless relativism.

        The real world implication of this is that people who disagree on moral issues, and are inculculated with these values, end up in a name-calling situation. This is obviously the major flaw with the way that western philosophy has chosen to deal with morality. Moral philosophers themselves do not notice this flaw, because their is a social convention in philosophy journals not to follow through and actually accuse people of a lack of character, even though they have structured the debate in such a way as to make that the logical end of the debate.

        personally, when I perceived this, I switched majors.

      • KSC says:

        Not necessarily for simply disagreeing. If my particular position warranted it, though, yes. However, that is a different issue and slightly more complex.

        Do you think people who are suicidal are suffering? Do suffering people deserve compassion? The impression I get is that you answer ‘no’ to at least one of these questions.

        • Rammstein says:

          by “deserve compassion”, what do you mean? Do you mean they deserve that I feel compassion towards them? That’s meaningless, my compassion, absent some expression of that compassion in a believable way, doesn’t affect them at all. Do you mean that I have an obligation to attempt to alleviate the suffering of every person who is suffering? What if my own existence is the exact cause of their suffering? Should I off myself?

          Your question is ill-formed, due to a lack of precision.

        • Anonymous says:

          Compassion is meaningless if it doesn’t affect the object of that compassion? That’s an interesting position.

        • Rammstein says:

          Reading comprehension fail.

        • KSC says:

          You should read your sentence and try to tell me what you think it means.

          Hold on! I have a better idea.

          Now that you have time for some new courses after dropping philosophy, I suggest taking a course in English. Perhaps you’ll be able to articulate yourself properly by the end of the quarter and we can continue this conversation. While you’re at it, I also advise you to buy a dictionary. Compassion has a precise meaning.

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  40. holleigh says:

    I been bullyed its tarible I miss wen my life use to be good now at school I go and cry see a lot of girls sent a really mean farwerd bout me around i have been goin to consuling and the teachers and everyone but all I do is cry wen I come home from school I cry wen I’m sleeping ill cry and wen I cry in my sleep one day I was in my room sleeping upstairs and I found myself down stairs wit a knife by my neck it was scary

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