Gevlon, once again, has disappointed. A few months back he set the moderate goal of just buying a Titan, rather than reaching market-dominating levels of ISK to truly impact New Eden the way major market barons do. Today, even the Titan goal is being abandoned, replaced by a lowly Carrier.
Now Gevlon states the reason for this is that he wants to be a social butterfly and share with everyone his ‘secrets’ to making ISK in EVE. He also states that because he was so social in his chat channel, he missed out on lots and lots of ISK. Pretty sure the ‘M&S’ term would be inserted here if this was on his blog, right?
Oddly enough, this declaration comes right around the ISK amount EVE vets suggested he would plateau off. Coincidence, I’m sure.
Of course now everyone can get as ‘rich’ as Gevlon. I’m sure the key to his success is ingenious market ideas, and not an inhuman tolerance for mind-numbing activities and a wealth of time to carry them out. After all, EVE might be 9 years old, but it’s only thanks to Gevlon that the idea of hauling skill books has finally been discovered. I don’t doubt that future posts will also include earth-shattering stuff. I hear you can make good ISK buying stuff at starter systems?
(On a less sarcastic note: I’m disappointed because it would have made for interesting reading to see if Gevlon could achieve success at the upper levels of EVE’s economy PvP game. Bowing out at this level robs me of entertainment, especially because nothing that Gevlon has wrote about as been anything truly clever in terms of making ISK. It’s all been the standard station trading/hauling stuff, which is less about strategy and more about grinding/time, and still vastly under-performs pilot trading.)
Hardcore Casual 
You have to give him credit for repeating those mind-numbing activities for 3 or 4 months or whatever he managed… I was able to sustain it for all of two weeks before the boredom undermined my profits.
Syncaine you are a shameless troll!
Tobold used to be your target of the day to try and stir up a bit of a blog war but now that Tobie’s star has waned you have shifted your sights to Gevlon. (Mind you I am still not convinced he isn’t really Tobold in diguise).
I wonder will Gobbo oblige? I will get in stocks of popcorn and await developments.
Not trolling TBH. Gevlon went into EVE with the goal to become a major player in the economy, and I was personally interested to see if he could do it. My disappointment in the result is genuine, and I know Gevlon has thick-enough skin to see the point of a post past the method of delivery, unlike mentioned former MMO blogger.
Fair enough but maybe there is a lesson in here somewhere. Gevlon never claimed to be pulling off astounding feats of busines acumen. In fact he insultingly dismisses anyone who cannot do what he does as a “moron” or a “slacker”. I hate his attitude but the fact remains that through the systematic application of dogged common sense and persistence Gevlon has amassed a considerable amount of ISK in a short time period.
This is indeed the point. The reason of poorness is that people wait for some huge miracle to get a Ferrari while ignoring the simple moves that would get them a simple car which would save them riding the bus. By definition only a few people can pull off huge feats. Doing one would be largely irrelevant as no one cares of what I (or you or Syncaine) is capable of. People care of what THEY can do. All I talk about are things that they can start to get “what EVE vets plateu off”.
Because most EVE vets (like Syncaine himself) makes 250M/hour, semi-AFK, without scheduling or significant risk.
Gevlon you are missing the point. If I wanted to make serious ISK, I could. Most people don’t station trade not because they can’t; they don’t do it because it’s beyond boring. That someone like you can stand it for as long as you did is impressive, but only in that regard.
I was hoping to be impressed/entertained on a market-level, not a grinding level. Literally anyone can make 20b grinding in EVE; with the only ‘talent’ being not blowing your head off first. Grats?
A carrier? The last time I checked, I was all of 2 skills and 10 hours of training away from flying a carrier. People actually put carriers in harms way… on purpose… they are so common.
I am disappointed, if only because I was really interested to see if he could pull off his titan ambitions.
gevlon also thinks WoW players are on average smarter and better players than EVE players. link: (http://greedygoblin.blogspot.com/2012/05/caveman-bias-and-iq-of-eve-vs-wow.html)
like any good randian, gevlon will get an idea into his head (EVE is full of morons and slackers) and ignore or deliberately misinterpret any evidence to the contrary.
Kind of helps if you read the context of the article and not the title. The comparison is that EVE players on average know less about actual EVE due to the way you learn in EVE vs the way you learn in WoW. Since WoW is an easier learning curve, it’s most likely correct to say the average WoW player knows more about WoW than the average EVE player knows about EVE.
Can’t really be measured or verified though, but trying to call it a deliberate misinterpretation is quite a stretch regarding the context, especially being an opinion based idea.
except for the part where he specifically asks: ‘guess which playerbase is dumber?’
the implication being that if WoW players could do the equivalent of mining during hulkageddon, they wouldn’t. and that’s bullshit. back when i played, i saw people mining / gathering in pvp areas. during big fights. no reason to believe they wouldn’t do it during an officially declared intra-server war on gatherers.
and he mentions amarr ships with rails, like a WoW player wouldn’t do the WoW equivalent to fitting laser bonused boats with rails. for every failfit killmail i’ve seen, i can recall a dozen hunters with spellpower gear or mages with strength gems.
bottom line is, he decided a long time ago that EVE is just as retard-infested as WoW, and now he’s trying to use shitfits, hulkageddon, and people who don’t think that flying thirty jumps in a hauler is worth 10M to prove his hypothesis. randian logic at its best.
I would comment on the Randian way in which you clearly decided a long time ago that Gevlon is a misrepresentative evidence-ignorer, and how this explains why you are currently ignoring the parts of his article that don’t fit with your theory, but that would probably start an endless chain of evidence-ignoring-Randian insults.
Instead I will just say that Gevlon obviously saw more morons in WoW running LFD than he sees flying solo trade routes between stations; so I see his article as more of an overcompensation as he attempts to explain to himself how there are so many unheld niches to occupy in EVE–a fact quite simply explained in the comments to this thread.
fucking petards. fuses are too short. i still think he’s full of shit though.
While that may be correct, you have to also consider amounts, and I think this is a bit where Gevlon falls short. Comparing a near 1 million to 10 million is not apples to apples. If you run across in your travels 100 idiots in WoW, and then in EVE run across 100 idiots, based on your travels alone the EVE playerbase is indeed worse than WoW. Based on that sample alone, you run into 10x the amount of idiots in EVE than WoW.
However, instead of using samples, Gevlon went with more or less anecdotal evidence, which as soon as you build your case on that the entire case becomes opinion, which I stated above specifically for that reason. I could argue all day that a passive shield myrm beats a triple-rep myrm every time, because I have never died in a passive shield myrm. Due to the last half of that, it doesn’t really matter if a passive shield does beat an active armor, it’s based off my experiences alone and nothing else. I could have only ran L3 missions to come to that conclusion.
Gevlon so far has only met the lowest level of the market thus far. I’m sure you’d get the same kind of idea if your only idea of EVE pvp was newbie duels outside starting stations. i.e. Most the population sucks.
Well to be precise, the innovation Gevlon claims to have made is carrying skillbooks in interceptors instead of large haulers. However, googling for carrying skillbooks in interceptors brings up several results predating Gev’s EVE experiment.
The fundamental inconsistency here is that the two statements:
A. Most EVE/MMO players are M+S with worthless opinions.
B. A bunch of people ridiculing someone’s idea about EVE/an MMO proves that achieving success with this idea is a fresh discovery.
are completely incompatible. One can ridicule the masses, or claim that any improvement over the masses is an admirable discovery, but not both.
Honestly, I was kind of thinking the same thing. EVE isn’t like WoW where there was a cap. EVE has no cap, and wealth is entirely relative. If you fly Frigates for warfare, 20 million is probably all you’d need. If you fly Batteships, you might want to sit on 100m-300m. Carriers or Dreads? Maybe a few billion or more.
Creating a new trade hub, a massive industrialist high-sec alliance, or a massive ISK-block so large it could be used to sway an alliance… That’s kind of the level I was expecting.
I think there’s a reason most traders don’t share their strategies, and only speak in generic speak. It would very likely be different in a multi-server environment, but in EVE everyone is your competition. Why would you share actual strategy with others who would then turn around and use it against you? At least that would be my assumption, and is the very reason I stick to general information myself on my blog.
However, I will say this. Trading is ungodly boring and bothersome. It’s an area I’ve stayed away from for the most part, though I have been playing it more recently during Hulkageddon for something to write about. You can make easy money trading, but there’s a point at which it becomes just too irksome to bother with it. Tending even dozens of orders like you need to with the market bots, is just too much for me. And isn’t even the least little bit interesting.
I can tell you don’t care for Gevlon overly much, and to be honest I think he does tend to go overboard at times. I think he certainly started into EVE very naively, but outside of that I think he’s doing the community more good than bad.
I don’t care for Gevlon one way or the other, and I read his blog so there is that.
But Gevlon always talks about making/having ISK as being ‘the point’, and while that’s not why many play, its a valid reason in a sandbox. But stopping at a Carrier being the whole sum of your ISK-gains (or even a Titan) is aiming low. It would be like us focusing only on WHs, and moving into a C1 and claiming we are AHARM.
More like moving into a C1 and only doing the Grav sites because the Sleepers are too hard.
The Eve market game is SO HUGE and has so many layers, and Gevlon is the MASTER of the very first and most insignificant layer. He has specialized in a trade practice that litterally every other market baron has tried and found lacking.
20B in Eve is poverty in the eyes of most industrialists. Maybe the average “M&S” PvP’er would be happy witha billion, but they measure their success on the killboards. When you measure your success on the number of 0s and commas in your wallet, having a measily 20B is kind of sad.
For anyone who disagress, go look at the Charachter Bazaar. Those players are buying inventory items valued between 5-25B and they buy multiple items for resale… that means just 1 item in their stock alone has a higher value than Gevlon’s entire net worth.
Gevlon has documented his journey as a newbie in EvE and shared different approaches for making ISK. He has made numerous mistakes and acknowledged (many of) them, encouraging a small community of new players to join and chat over the Goblinworks channel.
His central tenets are that the game is not a scary place and that anyone can make ISK with some research.
I would suggest that if your response to his posts is “I make X billion ISK per hour” or “Do something bigger to impress me!”, you probably aren’t the intended audience of the blog.
You don’t read Gevlon’s words. You have attributed intent to his actions that he states isn’t there. All of those charachteristics you just stated are representative of the behaviors of “Moron” which Gevlon rails against.
The reason anyone cares to refute Gevlon’s opinions almost entirely boils down to the fact that he claims anyone who does anything differently than him is either a moron or a slacker. We merely point out, that in the world of Eve Industrialists, he is in fact, the moron, considering his failure to accomplish anything of note.
If his posts were instead… I am new, here is my story, people would congratulate him on a job well done (for a noob)
I suspect the recent changes to Gevlon’s attitude about his activities and his goals are two fold… 1) even he has grown weary of the market and station trading games… The infintie scaling of ISK generation didn’t continue when he hit the cap of time and market orders, and competeing against market bots is annoying. and 2) He has become something of a minor celebrity and the social aspect of the game, which he much maligns as the elements of the M&S is becoming more important to him, than the practices themselves. Like all of us, he is realizing that haging out and having fun with a group of people, especially when they hang on your every word, is a goal in and of itself, and doesnt require an ISK payout to validate it.
That is Gevlon’s flaw. He claims to see only 1 valid metric for success in gaming… ones net worth. Almost every other gamer out there, sees this as an untennable and largely moronic viewpoint, and so he has become a bit of a lightning rod figure.
“You don’t read Gevlon’s words. You have attributed intent to his actions that he states isn’t there.”
Perhaps “tenets” was the wrong word for me to use.
But if you take his blog as any other newbie ISK-making tips and ignore some wider “anti-M&S” agenda (which is contradicted by the actions listed by Syn above), it doesn’t seem quite worthy of the ire generated.
So precisely as I have said…
His core principle and the stated mission in joining Eve was to “prove” that eve is easy and is mostly M&S.
So you are taking the precise wrong message from his blog, based on HIS STATED GOALS!
As I said, IF he had said, “I am new here, this is my story of how to make newbie isk”, it would be an amazing initiative and very successful. Since he has stated he is “proving everyone is doing it wrong” he is more or less a failure.
I would like to give Gevlon credit for making 5 bill in the first three months, I’ve been in the game for 6 years and have never had 5 bill…
Have you tried? Or were you instead, playing the game of Eve, instead of trying to accumulate ISK?
I’ll admit that I only earn when I need a new ship to replace the loss or get a new ship that new skills have allowed, however, I’m not sure trading for me is an aspect I would choose…
I have heard that there are players in Eve that have ‘never’ flown a ship, yet another plus for a nine year old “Internet Spaceship” game ;)
Yeah, i’m rather dissapointed too,but not because of what he did or did not achieve. Frankly a lot of the posts are plain painful to read for anyone actually playing the game beyond highsec carebear shenanigans (aka. mining/missioning).