Quick follow up to yesterday’s post.
First, getting over the social hurdle in EVE (getting into a Corp) is not harder than in other MMOs. A new character won’t get into a top-tier raiding guild, just like a new pilot won’t get into a top-tier EVE Corp. There are mass-recruit guilds in other MMOs, and there is EVE Uni, RvB, and Brave Newbies in EVE. And I’d argue the EVE Corp’s are far better than your average mass-recruit guild in other MMOs in terms of helping players and teaching the basics.
Do Corp’s do spy checks? Absolutely, just like games with clan banks don’t give everyone instant and full access. The degree and style is deeper/different in EVE because EVE is simply deeper and different than your average MMO. You don’t have an API in your average MMO like you do in EVE. You don’t generally have guilds with hundreds of thousands of man-hours of effort built up that can be ruined by a spy. Hell, in most MMOs you don’t even have guilds that have been around to build up hundreds of thousands of hours of effort to be ruined, even if it was possible.
Second, getting yourself into a Corp that makes the game better isn’t luck. If you just drift around running missions till you get bored, waiting for a great Corp to find you, you are doing it wrong. Like in basically any social situation in an MMO, the more you put in the more you will get out. If you do some legwork to find a quality Corp, and then put in the effort to impress and get in, you will be accepted 99% of the time, and will get 99% more out of EVE for doing so.
The critical difference between the EVE hurdle of being social and the average MMO hurdle of 100s of hours of gameplay/grind before you see ‘end-game’ is that in EVE, you are in control of how long this takes. If you want to drift around in high-sec, or join whatever random Corp and derp around, that’s on you. If you really do want to jump into the deep-end, and are prepared to put the effort in, EVE gameplay mechanics allow it. In contrast, no matter how motivated I am in the first 10 hours of WoW, I can’t get into the latest tier of raiding.
EVE puts the control in your hands, most other MMOs keep you in a pre-defined path until the game says you are ready.
Hardcore Casual 
EVE is a game that appeals to people that are comfortable setting their own goals, and finding their own way at it.
If you can tolerate a bit of uncertainty, and are interested in planning out a course and seeing it through, its a great game.
Every newbies initial plan is a bad one too, thats okay. Its more important that you discover your own, put some thought into it, and being open to change as a new player rather than “choose the best plan”.
In my experience, when i’ve had friends try it… The more proactively I invest in getting them to not waste early skill points, or “doing things correctly”, or giving them piles of isk early the less likely the hooks sink in.
Such shame that eve is such a boring game.
Frankly it’s the only interesting mmo game I’ve ever found. I wanted to quit, following the banning of Erotica 1, but found I could not because there is just nowhere else to go…
It is the only interesting one out there. I’m still spoiled by Vanilla WOW, nothing can fill that nitch. Not as tough or complex as eve, but 100 times the action. I could always find a good fight of some sort. Playing eve it was one decent fight a week at best and usually only one good fight every month or so. People are just too risk adverse in eve to make it a fun game.
I can’t say I agree that EVE’s corps are better than typical MMO guilds at helping new players. Sure, there are good corps like EVE Uni* and Brave Newbies – but there are hundreds of aggressively recruiting corps lead by people who not just fail to teach new players what EVE offers but actively steers them away from the really interesting aspects in favour of boring hi-sec tedium and toil.
When I started an alt I had him join a hi-sec corps to build a respectable reputation, help newbies and meet and socialize with other players. Despite trying a number of corps, I was constantly disappointed by just how limited a view of the game the leadership had despite the confidence with which they laid down advice or rules. It was the same shit I’d been fed as a newbie which kept me from really getting the most out of EVE for a year or more.
Right, but on the average MMO server, is there ANY guild on the level of EVE Uni?
Again, its player choice. A player can put in minimal effort any join any random Corp. Some will be good, some will be bad. But he always has the option to join a great one like EVE Uni.
The only choice you have in most MMOs has to happen prior to server selection (or you reroll, or pay to move) to ensure you are on a server with a truly great, helpful guild.
Frankly, I’m not actually convinced EVE Uni isn’t guilty of this as well. But it’s been quite awhile since I’ve interacted with them; perhaps they’ve changed. But I digress.
The problem is that in most MMOs it just doesn’t matter. You’re going to head for level cap regardless of which guild you join, and almost no decision you make until then will affect you. To be as actively harmful as EVE’s corps, a typical MMO guild would have to convince it’s players to grind level one monsters for copper forever – and then take a 20% share of that.
I’m convinced that aggressively recruiting highsec corps with no goal or purpose are the cancer of Eve. In most games, your first guild is just a chatroom to amuse you while you grind to the level cap. In eve, your first corp will completely determine your gameplay experience. New players can not be expected to know this in advance.
“When I started an alt I had him join a hi-sec corps to build a respectable reputation, help newbies and meet and socialize with other players. Despite trying a number of corps, I was constantly disappointed by just how limited a view of the game the leadership had despite the confidence with which they laid down advice or rules. It was the same shit I’d been fed as a newbie which kept me from really getting the most out of EVE for a year or more.”
Most high sec corps of this nature are run by null sec people farming the newbies to fund their game play. Allowing taxes on high sec activities makes no sense to me.
“Most high sec corps of this nature are run by null sec people farming the newbies to fund their game play.” How did you come by this information?
A bunch of corp mates found out I had an alt corp for me and my friends on coms one day. They thought at first I was running a highsec newbie farming corp and they started talking about their own experiences doing so. They told me it was a very common practice for hardcore PvPers. I can’t speak to the validity of it as I’ve never tried it, but it seems like an easy source of income.
I suspect you were trolled honestly. I’ve run high-sec Corps, it’s really difficult to recruit enough people and keep them to make taxes a factor, especially if you have a high rate without reason (saving up for a POS for example).
I guess it could be possible, but the amount of time/effort you would need to put into the recruiting aspect likely isn’t worth the tax ISK.
Hard to say SynCaine. It certainly didn’t feel like a trolling attempt. However, people are always quite secretive about the exact details on such things.
However, as a experiment: lets say that you’re camping a gate someplace in low or null sec. That gives you plenty of time spam people about join the corp, handle a few corp issues, and drop things right away if the PvP picks up. Bear in mind these are PvE only corps in highsec. You had to manage a corp that PvPed and had war decs from time to time. The type of people that would be farmed are permanent care bears who just want a place to chat.
Difference being there are tons of EVE blogs available. If you have any curiosity whatsoever about expanding your gameplay, a little googling will find it.
Almost every EVE blogger or comment poster is willing to chat in game about gameplay options, corps/alliances, etc… We all recognize that is what makes EVE unique. Even paranoid fleet intel types will usually refer you to recruiting officers for vetting new players.
IMHO, mostly two types of players in highsec:
1. Guys with real-life commitments who don’t have the time to fleet op.
2. Risk-averse folks making excuses for being anti-social and not learning the PVP mechanics.
Syn, thanks for linking TAGN’s posts, very cool. >=)
To make the ‘most’ of eve will take you into the depth of a nomadic lifestyle (wormholes, incursions, null sec deployments, etc) that isn’t the bread and butter of casual players who have lives (aka full time jobs and a family, possibly even children. blech)
I’d like to know what exactly a guild in other mmogs can get up to in the heights of ambition…that’s my question, since the author here seems convinced they’re merely ephemeral. i have a doubt.