Giving credit when it’s due.

It’s very easy to point out flaws in a game or it’s developer. When a server crashes, it’s impossible not to notice. When you are in a login queue, you know it. If your current class/race is underpowered, it affects your gaming. Even little things like hair poking through a helm or a single skill not functioning correctly get noticed by gamers, and any games message board usually contains plenty of minor errors people want fixed. But outside of ‘back of the box bullet points’, how often do you stop and take notice that something is working correctly?

How many reviews/post/threads have you read about how balanced mounted combat is in DarkFall? Hell, those of you that have actually played the game, how many of you gloss over the fact that DarkFall HAS working mounted combat? It seems such a simple thing: get on mount, pull out a weapon, and swing at people. No big deal right? Look around, how many AAA titles have mounted combat? WoW in 5 years has never added it, instead adding vehicles in controlled spaces to play around with the idea, but never added it fully. WAR, a PvP game that contains mounts, forces you off them before you can fight anyone. LotRO, EQ2 (does, see comments), etc, mounts but no combat. (AoC has it, but given the stories DF players tell about AoC PvP, it’s hard to give it too much credit, but having never actually played it I can’t comment beyond that)

But beyond the simple fact that DF has mounted combat, let’s look at how it balances out. On a mount, a player is faster than a player on foot, and loses less stamina riding over the same distance as a player who sprints. A swing from a mount does more damage than the same swing on foot, and a mount also has a forward and backward special attack that does even more damage. Hits from a mount punt an enemy player a decent distance as well. Given all that, mounts sound rather overpowered don’t they? So why is it that a player will dismount to fight on foot when facing a balanced encounter?

For starters, mounts can be killed, and at 300ish gold a pop, you can’t exactly burn through mounts without it hurting you financially. Next, mounts limit what you can do. You can’t cast magic or shoot arrows while mounted, and turning around on a mount is far slower than a player spinning around. Finally, if you only bring a single mount with you, getting it damaged or even killed during a battle means you have just lost your best means of escape should things go south.

Change up any of the seemingly small design decisions, and how balanced is mount combat now. If players were allowed to shoot arrows while mounted, what would that change? If a mount could turn at the same speed as a player, would you still see people fighting on foot? If the speed advantage was slightly lower for a mount, would players still value mounts as highly as they do now? All of these things are currently well balanced, and so you probably never question them.

Another example of unnoticed features is archery in DarkFall. It’s FPS-ish in that you have to aim to hit someone rather than picking a target and spamming your hotbar skills. But it’s deeper than that, in unnoticed yet critical ways. Ever consider the current rate of travel with arrows? If they flew faster, would escaping on a mount still be possible? If they flew slower, would archery have any value past point-blank chasing? If the arrows flew perfectly straight, rather than curve the way they do now, how would that effect fighting at long distances, or from higher ground? If arrows were unlimited, and only the bows durability effected whether you could shoot or not, what impact would that have not only on combat, but on crafting, the economy, and on the decisions made by players when loading up before heading out on a PvP trip? You see lots of threads about how archery currently does too much damage, but how many do you see complaining about the flight speed of arrows, or how imbalanced it is that archers have to always carry around ammunition?

It’s easy to look at any game and point out broken or incomplete features, let alone design decisions that simply don’t fit YOUR playstyle, but how often do we give credit when things are done right, especially things others have back off of and not even attempted to implement?

About SynCaine

Former hardcore raider turned casual gamer.
This entry was posted in Age of Conan, Darkfall Online, EQ2, Lord of the Rings Online, MMO design, PvP, Warhammer Online, World of Warcraft. Bookmark the permalink.

39 Responses to Giving credit when it’s due.

  1. Tipa says:

    Credit where credit’s due, EverQuest has had mounted combat since forever (any number of pics of me playing mounted cleric in planes raids), and you can definitely fight mounted in EQ2; EQ2 mounts give lots of combat bonuses just for that purpose.

  2. syncaine says:

    It does? Well damn, how come you never see raiding screen shots of players fighting on mounts in EQ2? Or is the mounted combat more or less a ‘buff’, and gameplay is basically unchanged?

  3. darren says:

    Probably the best example of mounted combat is from a game called Mount and Blade.

  4. syncaine says:

    Yea never played it, but on the DF forums I see a lot of “why is this not like M&B”. I know when the game came out it was in rough shape, but your blog and others have reported it’s better now, perhaps I’ll have to check it out.

  5. Tipa says:

    Raids I’ve been on, where the game allows mounts (they are usually but not always disallowed in dungeons), the raid leader usually asks people to dismount so people can see around all the horse, warg and rhino butts and maybe reduce lag some.

  6. Beau says:

    “It’s easy to look at any game and point out broken or incomplete features, let alone design decisions that simply don’t fit YOUR playstyle…”

    You just summed up exactly what you do with WoW, time after time after time after time. According to you, WoW is not only the measuring stick for every other game (for good or bad), but now that Blizzard has made some decisions to allow more players to do more things, you have swept away all those incredible hours of play that you have participated in, and now WoW is nothing but “candy-land-for-retarded-short-bus-riders-that-need-hand-holding” and Darkfall is somehow unique and different than anything out there (it is not, as far as systems go.)

    But you took the “easy” route, so that’s cool.

    Beau Turkey

  7. syncaine says:

    Other than missing the fact that WoW CHANGED to become candyland, you almost have a point Beau. You don’t see my faulting FreeRealms for being a kids game, or faulting LoTRO for having weak PvP, do you?

  8. Beau says:

    There you go again, stating your opinion as it is fact. Don’t worry, we all do it as bloggers and pod-casters, but this is your blog, not ours…so let’s stay on point.

    WoW seems to NOT be a candy land for millions, still. In fact, didn’t they gain more players over the last year, despite becoming a “candy-land?”

    Don’t tell me…those masses are simply the ones that like “hand-holding” and love the neon-glow of Easy-Land, right? None of them find any challenge, and none of the new content IS challenging? And, of course, your current choice of game is the NEW challenge (hard-core PvP, essentially a FPS with some RPG elements) that is above all, right?

    I’m actually fascinated with players like you, that will always blame a game for their boredom. You seem oblivious to the fact that, over time, ANYTHING becomes less challenging, especially a hobby that requires the basic skill set of a teenager.

    Tell me, you don’t see ANY irony in the point I quoted? None? Even if WoW changed, that does not mean that you should do exactly what you are scolding other players for doing (because they are doing it to your current game) which is to point out only it’s flaws…and NOT giving credit where it is due.

    But hey, of all the opinions out there about WoW, and out of all the opinions out there about Darkfall, yours is the one we should trust. Well, until at least the game changes to not fit YOUR play-style.

    Beau Turkey

  9. syncaine says:

    Opinion as fact… are you trying to argue that WoW is NOT easier in 2009 than it was in 2004? I just want to get that part straight, as it’s rather key.

    WoW is candyland for millions, yes. McDonalds servers billions, are you trying to reason that because billions buy a bigmac and not an aged steak that the Bigmac is better for someone who knows quality food when they see it? What part of ‘catering to the lowest common denominator’ is difficult to understand? It’s an established business tactic that works for some, fails for others. It worked for WoW, news at 11.

    That WoW is still a challenge for some I could care less about. What matters to me is that Blizzard took a game with (IMO) reasonable challenge and dumbed it down to be ‘accessible’ to others. That’s their choice, and I have my opinions about it, made clear here on my blog. Don’t confuse that issue however with my other problems with Bliz and WoW (copy/paste dev style, WoW tourists)

    And the overall point of the post is not ‘scolding other players’, but rather expanded thoughts of a recent vent conversation I had with a player. Perhaps the fact that you took it that way might explain part of the issue here?

  10. Wilhelm2451 says:

    The richness of the irony to see you going on about how you should look at the positive when, as Beau points out, you never miss an opportunity to slam WoW, even in this thread when you’re called on your double standard.

    Are you, Syncaine, arguing that games should get HARDER as they age? I want to get that straight so I can remind you of it later.

    Certainly some aspects of WoW got easier, but hey, I hear some aspects of WAR have gotten easier since launch too. Redefining what is important to an MMO happens. That is why you get that big “game play may change” warning on MMOs. Even Aventurine is making some PvE stuff easier in the name of accessibility. Damn them for dumbing down the game!

    As for your analogy, it is crap. If WoW is McDonalds, exactly which game are you saying is a well aged steak? No game you have mentioned so far seems to fit the bill.

  11. Bonedead says:

    I thought that whole “game play may change during online play” warning was because of people like me.

    The more you know!

  12. syncaine says:

    So wait, either we look at only positives, or we can only be negative, is that what you are saying? I was under the impression there was some gray area there. That this is not the site to point out all the awesome stuff WoW does should surprise no one, plenty of other sites cater to that already.

    Whether a game gets harder or easier is irrelevant. What’s relevant is that WoW got TOO easy for me (and others like me who found pre-WotLK raiding entertaining), along with many of the other changes to the game (or lack of) since 2004. You seem to be implying I’m not aware games change, while all I’m saying is that depending on HOW they change, I change my opinion of them. WoW 2009 is not as good a game FOR ME as WoW 2005 was. That X million players disagree does not change my opinion.

    If Aventurine makes WoW-like changes to DarkFall, like say removing full loot or added Trammel, I’ll be the first in line to call them out on it. I’m not quite sure how adding more mob spawns connects to dumbing down the game down for you, but okay…

    The analogy works, as a PvP fan WoW is McDonalds, DarkFall is an aged stake. That X million gamers can’t get past the front door to see the quality inside is not something I’m going to worry about. When guilds like LoD, TM, LotD, CotP start to condemn it, get back to me.

    If I’m an economy/trade MMO gamers, is EVE not the steak to the Bigmac of WoW? Or is making money using a mod in WoW the true challenge compared to making ISK in EVE?

  13. BiggDawg says:

    You can’t dispute that WoW has gotten much easier over the years, to the point that it is no longer a challenge for skilled MMO players. What stopped being fun about WoW is that they removed the challenge for skilled players, not that it got “old” after playing it for extended times. If the level of challenge had remained constant the fun would have remained, but since they continue to decrease the challenge with each expansion the incentive for skilled MMO players to play the game evaporates. By skilled MMO players I am referring to players with good dexterity, who are aware of their surroundings in a virtual world, know their class and how to play it, and can work within a group by following orders.

    Syncaine finds challenge in Darkfall, that is why he is playing it. Using challenge as the basis and from Syncaine’s point of view then yes Darkfall is the steak dinner and WoW is McDonalds. There is nothing wrong with the analogy.

    Syncaine may bash on WoW from time to time (usually with good reason), but Beau and Wilhelm seem to jump at any opportunity to bash Syncaine and they always bring WoW into the conversation. Get a hobby guys.

  14. Beau says:

    “Opinion as fact… are you trying to argue that WoW is NOT easier in 2009 than it was in 2004? I just want to get that part straight, as it’s rather key.”

    Listen man, let’s be really honest here. Point blank honest. None of these games, none, from UO to DaOC to WoW Pre-BC to Darkfall require anything close to the skill set of an astronaut or a real life sniper to play. In fact, all of them have been played, and quite successfully, but tweens with limited budgets, PC stats and time. Let’s not get into an argument about which game takes more skill, because I promise you that if you can play the game, so can I, and so can many basically intelligent individuals. But we all know that some players find absolute challenge in BOTH games, while many laugh at either.

    Let’s stay on point: you essentially said: “Do not only bring up (DarkFalls’) bad points, without giving credit for what it does right.”

    You typed it, which means you had time to consider what you just typed. If you do not see irony in that, then I seriously question your opinions about anything that requires “skill.” That IS the main point of your blog: you like games that take more skill, “dedication” and time. That’s fine, just sayin’.

    I’m just busting your balls because I like to point out to anyone reading this or to anyone that thinks that DarkFall somehow requires more “skill” than, say, Bridge, or that it is somehow completely unique in ANY of it’s approaches (point out a game-play aspect and I will point you out a game that has done exactly that) that this is not what you should be concentrating on. What you should be concentrating on is the unique combination of those things that make the game unique, and the unique way it makes you feel.

    Beau Turkey

  15. syncaine says:

    Now wait, they, like me, have a hobby. It’s having discussions on the blog-o-sphere about or around the games we play, caring WAY too much about a silly hobby. I blame a job with decent amounts of free time for my issue, not sure about them.

  16. Beau says:

    “Syncaine may bash on WoW from time to time (usually with good reason), but Beau and Wilhelm seem to jump at any opportunity to bash Syncaine and they always bring WoW into the conversation. Get a hobby guys.”

    I assure you, spending 10 minutes posting on this blog does not detract from the 400 other things I can do on a day off.

    Bear in mind that these “opportunities” that I am taking to bash Syn happen somewhere around a few times in a year. That’s the point of him leaving the blog open to comments.

    Also, it’s fun. He likes the attention, and I like to point out how incredibly uptight the guy is! :)


  17. Centuri says:

    “When guilds like LoD, LotD, CotP start to condemn it, get back to me.”

    On another note, it seems odd that they would disallow mounted archery. Shooting a moving target from a moving (both lateral and vertical) platform would prob require such “skill” that many wouldn’t do it anyway.

  18. syncaine says:

    Why are you comparing MMO skill to an astronaut? Keep it apples to apples and stick to the genre. WoW IS easier now than it was in 2004, that’s really not opinion, it’s fact. My point about that fact is I don’t like it, while X million do. -1 for WoW in my book. Other aspects lead to further -1 points, and hence the hate. If WoW had 10k players, I would spend far less time on it, but since X million people play it, and a further X number of devs change their MMO to be like it (WAR), it effects me more than any other game I’m currently not playing.

    The middle part of your comment is important though, the post is not ONLY about bringing up the good points in DarkFall, it’s more about how we (as MMO gamers) tend to overlook functioning aspects of any MMO, and that if that aspect happens to be somewhat unique (mounts or archery in DF), it deserves mention. That LotRO has working hot bars is great, but since most MMOs have them as well, it’s not really worth going on about. That LotRO has managed to tell a great solo story while still being a good group MMO is worthwhile, just to toss out an example.

    The mount/archery examples were just that, examples. It’s hard enough to talk about an MMO without writing a book when trying to explain something, and those two aspects happen to be fairly isolated in terms of design. I also think the PvP in DarkFall is really well done in terms of overall balance and player skill, but I’m not going to write the worlds longest blog post covering how skill/gear/location/numbers/connection/etc all factor in to create that balance.

    @Centari: You link to a post about Bone from Sin talking about the overall status of players in DarkFall (with many of the posts disagreeing with him). Where in that post is he saying DF is so bad that he is pulling Sin out? If the game was that flawed, would he care enough to try and improve it?

  19. Beleg says:

    For the record, Beau and Wilhelm are idiots.

    Moving on, I had a very similar conversation with some clan members yesterday. As we were talking about a non-obvious offensive strategy when sieging our city, I started to appreciate how much design effort went into each unique city/hamlet. They aren’t “mildly” unique — they each have their own architecture, lay out, defensive/offensive strategy, etc. It’s really quite cool, especially when you consider the ramifications of this on a game based largely on clan city sieges.

  20. Centuri says:

    Perhaps I didn’t read all of the thread, (It was 15+ pages when I saw it the other day) but I did go over the first few pages. He was stating that the game mechanics of DFO make it so that loosing your city/hamlet is so terrible that people are packing up and leaving rather than rebuilding. Add to that the lack of new players coming in and you have one hell of an attrition problem.

    • Beleg says:


      Losing your city/hamlet isn’t actually terrible, but its certainly demoralizing for a clan. People that pack up and quit when they lose probably wouldn’t have lasted very long in Darkfall. It’s certainly not an “easy mode” game.

  21. syncaine says:

    Well that’s his take on it. Alliances like Stasis have shown otherwise, and new players are added whenever the shop opens. IMO players who pack up and leave after getting knocked down once would have quit DF regardless of the mechanics, short of adding something like Trammel.

    In his opinion, a game like DarkFall needs ‘sheep’ (in the UO definition of them), while I think the MMO space is big enough now to sustain a game of all ‘wolves’ (again using the UO definition) if properly planned. Aim for 50k users, don’t base your business around 500k+. Time will tell which theory is correct.

  22. Centuri says:


    I don’t play nor to I plan to. The folks in that thread are playing or used to play. They are discussing how ENTIRE GUILDS are packing up and leaving DFO after being defeated and loosing their stuff.

    That does not seem to be a good sign for the game or the community. Syncaine denounces WoW tourists for descending on new games like locusts and leaving empty servers behind. DFO seems to be doing it to itself.

  23. syncaine says:

    WoW tourists still bought DF accounts, just not as many as they would have liked in the first month. The website being swarmed for so long is proof of that.

    But really, guilds folding after a few months of a new MMO is nothing new, it happens in EVERY game. That the catalysis here was the loss of a city might be notable, but their departure is not. The churn rate should be high for a game like DarkFall (I’m honestly surprised it’s not higher), and it’s going to take some time for everything to settle down. (we are somewhat seeing this start to happen, with alliances like Dusk folding and being replaced by the clans who stuck around after the ‘filler’ have left)

  24. Bonedead says:

    My only problem with DF is that in order for it to be as awesome as it potentially can be, the players have to not be fuckin retards. I don’t know if I should blame the goons or basic human nature. All I know is that when alliances were formed so small guilds could compete against large guilds, the game was more fun. As soon as it became this world domination frat boy wannabe crusade the pretty image of the perfect game in my head turned into a pile of dicks.

  25. Rostam says:

    Regarding guilds losing everything and packing up to leave. DF cannot compete with the other well-funded MMO’s and so it has to distinguish itself and carve out it’s own niche market.

    There’s a misconception that DF’s market is the hardcore PvP asshat type (although there is a lot of them). But rather DF is for the people that want to have risk and reward in their gaming experience. If guilds didn’t lose something valuable upon losing their city there would be little risk and consequences to the game. Alternatively the reward of taking a city would also be diminished (in the sense that denying your enemy resources and crushing them is part of the reward).

    There are several things that smart guilds can do to mitigate the risk of losing their city:
    – Ally with another guild who will allow you to share their city with them until you can reclaim your own.
    – Have a large stockpile of surplus resources to rebuild a city (your guild bank is actually the most valuable asset in the game and it can’t be taken away).
    – Have a plan for taking someone else’s city if yours is taken.
    – Or just go refugee for a while and roam the lands until another opportunity presents itself.

    If a guild is not ready to lose their city then they probably don’t deserve one. As for guilds leaving the game entirely, I think they weren’t meant for the game and it is completely normal to see a high level of attrition in the first few months of any MMO. Some gamers try a game to see what it’s like, they will either like it or not.

    I’ve tried out several MMO’s to see if I liked them and to get a feel for what they offer compared to the MMO I am currently playing. I think MMO tourism is perfectly ok thing to do and you have to understand and plan for the fact that it will happen.

  26. syncaine says:

    You can’t blame Goons 100% for that though Bone. MH talked a LOT of trash when they had their city, and while some of their members left after the Goons took it, they remaining MH members are still around and having fun (based on their forum posts anyway, I don’t fight them often in game). As I said above, the game is still settling down, and I think after the initial ‘rush to ally’ stuff, the majority of the player base is coming to terms with the fact that the game is more fun when smaller sides are involved. The two remaining major forces are Death and CC, hopefully both will fade like all the other big alliances.

  27. Rostam says:

    @Bonedead, you do realize that the real world is essentially and has always been filled with “world domination frat boy wannabe crusade pile of dicks” right? Why did you think the virtual world would be any different?

  28. willee says:

    /Beau “there you go again, stating your opinion as fact.”

    I almost spit out my coffee when i read this. Of all the people i’ve run into on the interwebs you more than anyone has this annoying characteristic down to an absolute science.

  29. Melf_Himself says:

    It’s hard to find any game that doesn’t have *some* good design decisions. But playing bad games is frustrating, so if there’s more bad than good in the game, I’m not sure why you’d be surprised that people aren’t taking the time to sing the praises of something that pissed them off.

    Or, in more ‘hardcore-lol-pwnt-carebear’ terms that you can understand:

    There are no prizes for second place.

  30. mordiceius says:

    I guess it is okay to rip on people who talk bad about Darkfall and not give credit to the good things and then just rip on WoW for the bad things in it and not give credit to the good things.

  31. willee says:

    “I guess it is okay to rip on people who talk bad about Darkfall and not give credit to the good things and then just rip on WoW for the bad things in it and not give credit to the good things.”

    Well Mordiceius, i’m sure you realize the amount of people who do the exact opposite of that far outnumber the people who do exactly that, i’m guessing by a factor of about 1,000 to 1.

  32. Beau says:

    “I almost spit out my coffee when i read this. Of all the people i’ve run into on the interwebs you more than anyone has this annoying characteristic down to an absolute science.”

    I didn’t say I didn’t. Read what I type.


    Here, I’ll recap for you:

    “Don’t worry, we all do it as bloggers and pod-casters, but this is your blog, not ours…so let’s stay on point.”

    Anyway, I don’t think we have “run into” each other, being that you are a small blot of text, anonymous and all. Maybe our eyes met across a crowded room?

    My original points still stand. I’ll recap those too:

    1) It is ironic that Syn typed what he typed. This is a pretty stereotypical type of thing from a gamer like him, but it’s still ironic.

    2) We are debating (in case you didn’t catch it) the fact that he considers WoW “easy” while I say it provides challenge. For the record, I don’t play WoW anymore, not for a long, long time. I don’t need to to know that plenty of players find plenty of challenge in it, and unless I missed it, Syn hasn’t even TRIED the new stuff to know how hard it is.

    3) Syn is saying, essentially, that WoW is “easy mode retardo-ville that only hand-holding special edders play” (more stereo-typical chatter) and in comparison (aged steak) he offers DARKFALL. That means he thinks Darkfall is HARDER than WoW.

    Here it is again, in case you missed it (it’s very simple) : Darkfall is not hard. WoW is not hard. Even within the limited box of “mmorpgs” neither game takes more skill than, say, building a birdhouse the first time. If you think that playing Darkfall is somehow the OPPOSITE of WoW (which is essentially what Syn is saying) then you have no concept of your own past.

    Also, to explain just a bit, I said “astronaut” and “real life sniper” like someone would say “…it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to do that.” I meant to compare REAL skill with the “skill” of playing video games, which is barely above the abilities of a child. Trust me, I have seen children play video games. I’m sure many of you have.

    There ya go. Not that complicated. You can wipe your chin, now, Willee.

    Beau Turkey

    • willee says:

      Beau, i read your qualifier…if everyone does it, including you, then why call him out on it? Seems like such an unneccesary comment if “we all do it” and there was no point in mentioning it. But you mentioned it because it obviously bothered you, thus my point still stands and will continue to stand no matter how “slowly” i read your message.

      “Anyway, I don’t think we have “run into” each other, being that you are a small blot of text, anonymous and all. Maybe our eyes met across a crowded room?”

      I know who you are, unless there is another person out there posting on various mmorpg message boards with the moniker “Beau” that has the exact same posting style as you. Possible i suppose, but unlikely.

      “Here it is again, in case you missed it (it’s very simple) : Darkfall is not hard. WoW is not hard. Even within the limited box of “mmorpgs” neither game takes more skill than, say, building a birdhouse the first time. If you think that playing Darkfall is somehow the OPPOSITE of WoW (which is essentially what Syn is saying) then you have no concept of your own past.”

      I disagree, as i’m sure many others do. Playing mmorpgs can be very challenging and hard. But first, you have to keep it in context. Most people are already aware of this basic concept when conversing on a topic but it obviously escapes you for some odd reason. And that last sentences…i don’t have the slightest clue what that even means.

      No, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist, or an astronaut, or a sniper to be good at an mmorpg. You can’t really compare playing a video game to those things…lets stay within the realm of apples here. If you can do that, then you must realize some mmorpgs are in fact more challenging than others.

      For example, leveling to 10 in EQ (at least original EQ) is much harder than leveling to 10 in WoW. That could be for various reasons, longer grind, mobs harder to kill, etc. etc. But to deny that fact is nonsensical, although i’m sure you’ll try.

      Blahh…i was going to type some more but this just isn’t worth my time. Arguing with you just isn’t worth it.

      “There ya go. Not that complicated. You can wipe your chin, now, Willee.”

      Cripes…you showed me…zing!

  33. Einherjer says:

    Beau, if gaming skill as eye/hand coordination, situational awareness, quick reactions, sound tactical decisions are so common, why do you think so many guilds failed to kill, for example, Prince Malchezzar? It should be doable by a group of 10 twelve year olds, right?

    In the same vein, can you spot the difference between Shadow Labyrinth before and after they reduced the mobs there? How come much more people managed to fight Blackheart, the Inciter after they reduced the groups than before?

    Finally, what is the difference between a druid that, in that situation, managed to heal the party while keeping a mob cycloned and one dead druid healer in another party?

    Skill, maybe?

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  35. Bonedead says:

    I guess I assumed people interested in playing a crazy PvP game wouldn’t be a bunch of pussies. I’m sure there is a more eloquent way to put it, but we should know I’m not very eloquent. We kicked the goons ass probably 4 out of 6 times before they created a huge alliance. It’s just weak. They can’t win on their own, and when they do by zerging, now they’re someone to fear? Gaaaaaay. Grow some balls imo.

    I’ve been considering a return to DF recently. Toying with the idea of Goon infiltration.

  36. syncaine says:

    Well that’s what the Goons do; gather numbers and swarm people. Unfortunately for you MH was one of the first targets. Who knows how long that will last in DF though, lots of rumors abound of unhappy CC guilds looking for a chance to leave.

  37. Bonedead says:

    I kinda just wanna rub my e-browneye on their faces.

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