Why all but 330k people should hate EVE

I’m starting to really hate EVE Online.

I’m starting to hate it because it makes all other MMOs look like crude kids toys, like silly side activities you dabble in before getting back to the ‘real’ game. It makes events that happen in other MMOs look like droplets in the ocean that is EVE’s history. And it does all this before you even start to really compare designs, before you start to realize how well so many things in EVE work despite the fact that it’s been out almost seven years now. Think about that; seven years and pilots are still advancing in basically the same skill system, still living and thriving in basically the same set of ‘zones’, and even after seven years the economy, by far the deepest in any MMO, is as strong as ever. There have been no ‘Cataclysms” to shake things up, there have been no total revamps to systems to make them work, no “re-roll an alt and play it all again” pitches. Just the constant, inevitable progression of both the pilots and New Eden itself.

All MMOs have a set timeframe that they are expected to thrive in, to either be replaced by something else or put into maintenance mode, a relic for new players to explore. There are no major changes coming to UO or EQ1 or AC1. If you never played them, go check them out. If you have, you know what to expect, and if you’ve ‘finished’ them, you move on. All MMOs but EVE. A pilot with close to 7 years of experience is not about to ‘finish’ the games content, he is not about to ‘max out’ or finally acquire the ‘best in slot’ in everything. He is not waiting for the next content patch to have something to do. He is not taking a break until more ‘stuff’ is added. He is, in the purest sense, going about his business in EVE, with more options available to him today than he likely had the year before. Dwell on that long enough and it really is amazing, and yet seemingly so simple. It’s a virtual world after all, of course you continue living in it until you, not the content, decide to move on. Yet it’s the only game in the genre that can legitimately make that claim, and it has the growing sub numbers to back that up.

And I hate EVE because as much as I love DarkFall, and as much as I agree with what Aventurine is going for and what they have delivered, placing DF next to EVE is just sad. I mean sure, the actual combat in DF is tops in the genre, and while very different, the graphics in both games do some amazing things. But the economy, the territory conquest, the political game, and the size and impact of certain events? Or the balance issues, the long-term prospects of character development, the size of the world, the technology to handle epic battles? Not even close is an understatement, and DF is better in many of those areas than most MMOs. How well does your MMO handle 200 players all fighting each other? How often does that happen? Does the outcome affect 300k others? How much real character progression can you make after playing consistently for over a year? How solid, viable, and balanced is your crafting after three years? Are items that were useful five years ago still useful and in-demand today? Hell, will ANYTHING you are doing today matter in five years in the MMO you are playing?

All of this comes about because I was recently asked to contribute to EON magazine; they had some space for a WoW-bashing article about how anyone playing that game is a racist bully, and who understands those MMO parasites better than I do, right? (That’s not the actual topic, sadly, it’s about PLEX and RMT). During my previous times in EVE, I had never seen a copy of EON, and so when I got my copy just a few days ago, I was literally floored, and it took reading the first ten pages to get me to re-subscribe. I’m not joking about that either, literally after reading ten pages I put the magazine down, went to the computer, and re-subscribed. One can only ignore the call of something so great for so long, and with EON’s passion as evidence in front of me, it was not a hard choice.

I have an overall goal for my return, along with several smaller ones, but that’s a post for next week. For now, I’m going to finish reading EON, get the rust off from being away from EVE for so long, and attempt to figure out a way to split my time between DarkFall (not giving that game up by any means), EVE, and Guild Wars (with Aria).

And I owe it all to the magic of the sparkle pony, as without your overpriced, less-than-pointless, zerg-inducing addition, the original blog post here that started all of this would have never been written. So thanks Blizzard, I owe ya one.

About SynCaine

Former hardcore raider turned casual gamer.
This entry was posted in Asheron's Call, Combat Systems, crafting, Darkfall Online, EVE Online, Guild Wars, MMO design, Rant, RMT, Site update, Ultima Online, Uncategorized, World of Warcraft. Bookmark the permalink.

36 Responses to Why all but 330k people should hate EVE

  1. Pingback: Eve Online Rain Delay

  2. TariqOne says:

    Eh, you can kinda max out your ship with best in slot stuff. Not much advancing in the shinies to do as a miner after you get your Hulk and perfect your fittings.

    I happen to agree with a lot of the point about the dynamic nature of EVE and the way it really doesn’t need a ton of revamping. But still, they’ve added new ships and issued and planned regular expansions and modifications to the game (wormhole space, planet exploitation, walking in stations etc.) to keep people interested, so I’m not sure what you’re saying is totally accurate.

    And admit it, you’re getting tired of DF. You just can’t concede given what a hard line you’ve drawn in the past.

    • SynCaine says:

      I do love the group waiting for me to quit DF, although after all this time it must be a little frustrating waiting so long. Sadly, the wait is going to continue, especially given the June expansion.

  3. Bhagpuss says:

    While you’re straying from Darkfall, have you looked at “Craft of Gods”? I hadn’t noticed it until the last couple of days. Looks rather reminiscent of DAoC in terms of its PvP structure – they even use the term RvR on the website.

    They have a final 5-day open beta next week before they launch on the 27th of May. Would be interesting to hear your thoughts, or those of anyone that’s played in the previous open betas.

    I feel I can go a very long time without hearing any more about EVE from anyone, though…

    • TariqOne says:

      On the other hand, it’s cute how Tobold got Syn back into EVE.

    • SynCaine says:

      I saw the Craft of Gods video, looks rather terrible. But definitely no time for another MMO at this point.

  4. Stabs says:

    Welcome back.

    The North v South war is in full swing, try to get involved in that conflict, it’s epic.

  5. Chris says:

    Cool, cool. Hopefully you make it down to ‘new provi’ for some pew pew.

    I’ll be camping the KBP7 gate, waiting to welcome you back to the game ;)

  6. Latrodanes says:

    Hehe. Welcome back to New Eden. All other MMOs are just “games.” EvE, well, it’s just “different.” No having to wonder about all that L80+ whatamIgonnadowithmyselfnow?” stuff. Just fly, build, shoot, make friends, make enemies, and live the internet spaceship dream. Oh, and don’t do dumb things like Tobold and fly to 0.0 uninvited. :-)

    Fly safe.

  7. Jeff says:

    Fantastic read!

  8. valkrysa says:

    First thing you should do when you log in? Fly the quickest path to 0.0 by yourself, a very prominent blogger did it and it got him a lot of friends!

  9. Alucard291 says:

    It shows that you haven’t played it for a long while. Eve is the kind of a game where you go away for a year. Come back in a year and go “omg omg omg amazing”. Roughly a week later however you realise that’s its the same game you left and that in that year nothing has been added except for some new fotm feature which will be abandoned and replaced by the next fotm feature come next expansion. (Wormholes… Faction Warfare… T3 cruisers… etc etc).

    Thankfully as far as I’m concerned the game is 100% free for me which at least means that I can keep coming back to it and get disappointed for free :) (Whether I would bother if I had to pay is a different matter altogether).

    Oh and the new expansion (and thus the flavour of the month feature) is going to be a flash game about moon mining. Development of which will be abandoned when the next expansion comes out :)

  10. Alucard291 says:

    Oh and sorry its kinda late where I’m from forgot to mention.

    “How well does your MMO handle 200 players all fighting each other?”

    In eve’s case right now? Not very well at all. Lets say our thanks to dominion to the grid loading lag (10 mins+ long) which basically killed fleet fights.

    “Does the outcome affect 300k others?”

    Again in Eve – not really since roughly 10% of the player base is in 0.0 sec and the rest if are affected then its mostly by supply and demand for ships :)

    And since you mention 7 year old chars in the game… Well tbh few of the original owners of the chars are actually playing them since char trade is legal and is done via the forum. Also “the end game” well it takes roughly 1.5 years to train up to fly a titan after that what do you train? A different race of a titan? Well why not have 2 or 3 accounts do it simultaneous? Since isk is so easy to acquire its more than doable. Most people have 2 – 3 specialised alts on different accounts. (A lot of people have more it is once again legal according to eula etc). So you have a cap char a “general pvp char” and some sort of a money maker. You got this and that’s about it you’ve hit the “end game” of the actual eve online.

    • Zapatero says:

      Outcomes in EVE might not directly affect all 330k players, but they might, and in many cases the players might not know they’re affected. Those darn markets can be very dastardly. I think that’s partly the point.

      As for judging the end game. Flying a titan is not nearly as important to players as some might think. Understanding the shifting sands of frontlines and alliance/market relationships is where the end game really is. I’ve been playing for 7+ years and I’ve never tired of the ebb and flow, although my desire to be in amongst it all is not what it once was.

      My EVE experience is less about game mechanics and more about watching very human situations play themselves out. It’s an endlessly fascinating place, second only to planet Earth.

      • Alucard291 says:

        Zapa it was similar for me for a while. And also I was an ebil piwate for a while. And then I was in nullsec for a while. I’ve been in big fleet fights. (~insert a quote about horrible lag here~). I’ve been in small gangs and led a few successful ones in my time. I’ve lived in a wormhole for 3 months or so. I’ve even created (with some friends) an alliance (a small one) which is still alive even though my corp has died long ago :)

        I’ve spent an ungodly amount of time trading spreadsheeting etc. B4 I’ve quit (possibly for the last time now) I’ve had lets just say a fair few personal pos-es reprocessing moon goo and earning a couple bill a week just doing that.

        And I’ve quit because there has been nothing new in the actual game since apocrypha and that was about a year ago :)

  11. mandrill says:

    Stay away from North v South till they fix the lag. Since Dominion there’s been awful fleet killing lag in any battle with any substantial number of ships. If you’r not on the grid and loaded before the battle starts then you mihgt as well self destruct.

    Big fleet fights are a fun killer at the moment. But I have heard that New Prov is alot of fun at the moment. Lost of small gang stuff going on there.

  12. Mala says:

    “it makes all other MMOs look like crude kids toys, like silly side activities you dabble in before getting back to the ‘real’ game.”

    Thats because all other MMOs ARE toys/silly side activities you dabble in before getting back to ‘life.’

    The reason veterans such as ourselves are so frustrated is that the MMO genre went to being a strictly hobbyist genre to being perhaps the MOST casual genre save for the pop cap mini games.

    Incidentally, I think its somewhat why I’ve been finding myself leaning towards RTS games recently, it seems to be relatively unaffected by casual infiltration.

  13. Stormwaltz says:

    I quit EVE after a year because the moment to moment gameplay swung between mind-numbingly dull and heart-stoppingly stressful. The final impetus was when I realized I spent most of my time doing virtual chores to subsidize the fun parts. The hours I sank into travel and mining could have been more productively spent vacuuming and washing dishes.

    But having said that, EVE is the only game whose news I follow as avidly as the BBC, even after six years without logging in. I don’t have to live in it; I get nearly as much pleasure from reading about how others live in it.

  14. n0th says:

    “he final impetus was when I realized I spent most of my time doing virtual chores to subsidize the fun parts.”
    IMHO its pretty much a requirement to enjoy one part of PvE/manufacturing activities in eve to fund PvP. That or you get in a communistic corp…

    While isk-making is a grind in a lot of cases (mishuns, mining, production, 0.01 isking in Jita etc.) its needed to make PvP meaningful.

    Even when i (being a 3-month old noob) pop a frig or ceptor in lowsec, i know that the pilot needs to spend 4-20m to get a new one instead of just respawning somewhere and continuing his business…

    This (among a LOT of other things) was what made me /unsub in WAR.
    Whats the point in killing ppl in oRvR when they’ll respawn and be back in like 2 minutes tops? Maximum you could do is kick the odd farmer off LotD when it locked for destro….

  15. Dblade says:

    Syn, you have to know it isn’t like that.

    A lot of EVE is just plain dull. Waiting months not even logging in to learn skills to advance, grinding dull PvE missions to fund all to brief PvP which isn’t even satisfying since its unbalanced, and menaingless politics. Character progression is a joke, because you hit a wall with the amount of money you can earn to fly those big ships, and they get too costly to risk.

    The reason why eve endured at all is because it trammeled itself and managed to keep pvpers because there was only one server. With tyrannis it keeps themparking the game because CCP realizes that most of its people just log on occasionally to do grinds in hisec, and they need more to do.

    You are going to go into eve thinking like that and burn out so fast it wont be funny.

    • SynCaine says:

      I do know because I have 2 20m+ pilots that I played for a little over a year or so. I know what EVE is, and I know what is needed to make it fun rather than a grind. Clearly the game did not work out for you, but it does for many others, and I’m looking forward to getting back into it.

      • WTM says:

        I think you’ve hit the nail on the head well and truly there mate.

        Eve is not the game for everyone, never has been and never will be.

        It doesn’t spoon feed you… You have to teach yourself the best and most fun (for you) way to make isk….

        Also as others commented, it is the fact the ships cost isk, and hence time, that is what makes the pvp matter. Let alone that in null sec you are often fighting over the ability to make isk.

        Lastly, welcome back Syn…

    • Spiffy says:

      “Waiting months not even logging in to learn skills to advance”

      You’re doing it wrong!

  16. W says:

    Tobold’s brief foray (And Syn’s response to it) are what finally convinced me to download the free trial. So far I just have to say…. Long live the sandbox.

    So how does a noob figure out the poltics going ’round in 0 space? The forums?

  17. @W

    Forums can help as well as simply asking in channels. Joining a player corp will help as well. You can also do a search for EvE Tribune which is a weekly publication that covers much of 0.0 ongoing political happenings. Lastly I’d say check out evebloggers.com and you’ll find tons of player blogs which cover a great many topics including the politics.

    • Anonymous says:

      It can not be overstated the value of joining a player Corp, even an empire based one, to develop within.

      The Mittiani’s blog can be a good source of historical perspective, albeit slightly biased.

  18. NeeKo says:

    You gotz a full on metal chubby for EvE. Not healthy dude. :P

  19. JohnR says:

    Being a big scfi and gaming fan, I wanted to love Eve. As it happened though, it was the most painful four hours of gaming I’ve ever done. Horribly clunky and touch-fiddly interface, a tutorial that was confusing in the extreme, and the most rude, trolling, unhelpful player community it has ever been my misfortune to experience. In fact my ship wasn’t even out of the dock five minutes when I got hit on by someone trying to get me involved with some kind of membership scam. I actually felt ill and nauseous and had a terrible migraine by the time I quit out of it. You could argue that four hours is no where near enough time to try a game, but in that short time I seemed to experience all the bad things people have written about this travesty on the web. Eve is definitely a case of the lunatics taking over the asylum, and IMHO New Eden was more like New Hell. No thank you!

  20. Brent says:

    Eve online is the most advance space sim I found so far. However, I just don’t like being pester in High Sec. This is the only problem I have with the game. Low sec, Sky is the limit. I don’t care what happens. Its not called low sec for nothing. But high sec, I don’t want to be pester when I am mining, mission running, and trading. Or doing anything else.

    I like the game but I want to play it my way. If I want to pvp, I will be prepare for pvp and I would be ok with losing a ship. If I want to play pve, I don’t want to worry about pvp at all or be pester by people.

    Well there out 14.95 from me every month. I am play WOW MOP instead. At least I can pick what I want to do when I want to do it. I even pvp on occasions when I feel like it.

    With ~330000 hard core casual player * 14.95 = Eve is out 4,933,500.00 per month. I guess they don’t want more money. (the ally commercial)

    That’s my view.

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